A Nation of Christians, Not a Christian Nation

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BlaznFattyz

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Is America a "Christian nation?" The question is not as simple as might first appear. Better to say that this is a nation whose citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This is a distinction with a difference.

Christian nation or nation of Christians? Some Christians imagine a version of history in which the republic was established as a Christian nation in something like a constitutional sense. An honest look at the historical record indicates that this was not the case. Christianity has never been an established religion in any official sense at the national level. The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids a national church...

Cont'd
 
BlaznFattyz said:
Is America a "Christian nation?" The question is not as simple as might first appear. Better to say that this is a nation whose citizens are overwhelmingly Christian. This is a distinction with a difference.

Christian nation or nation of Christians? Some Christians imagine a version of history in which the republic was established as a Christian nation in something like a constitutional sense. An honest look at the historical record indicates that this was not the case. Christianity has never been an established religion in any official sense at the national level. The establishment clause of the First Amendment forbids a national church...

Cont'd
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America is One nation, under God, and is in one hell of a crisis right now. Not since the pre civil war years has the American people been so decidedly divided into two camps, both thinking they are absolutely correct.

Constitutionally we are not a Christian nation (we observe no state religion at all). And that is as it should be. But we are a nation of predominantly Christian ethic, and that can not be dicarded either.

The first ammendment establishes freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. However, the constitution also forbids the government from establishing a state religion, or impeding an elected official from taking office due to their particular faith.

We do have morons who would impose their will on the whole of the land, and do away with anything religious in public circles, but they are simply pissing in the wind. And we do have the other morons who would impose their will and their God over the whole of us, but they are just as stupid.

This is a land and people of tolerance, and laissez faire, for the most part. However, even tolerant people have their limits. We also have a resolve not seen elsewhere in the world. And once fixated on a perceived enemy, will not stop until the "enemy" is neutralized.

We also currently have the worlds largest ready "militia", with over 200 million strong. the ages of said militia range from 10 to 104.

This is a land that loves God (just express it in different ways), and bends knee to that God...I think that is the only reason we are where we are today...

However, we are capitalists too, so "In God we Trust" all others, pay cash...:eek: ;) :D
 
Quahom1 said:
We also currently have the worlds largest ready "militia", with over 200 million strong. the ages of said militia range from 10 to 104.
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200 million? Woa. Hey, I thought America's population was about 300 million?

Did you really mean 20 million? Or 2 million? I doubt whether America's military would be 67 % of its population, that two in three of all Americans are soldiers. Who would make the guns? Grow the food and crops? Gather the resources? Design the weapons and technology? Typing mistake?

Quahom1 said:
This is a land that loves God (just express it in different ways), and bends knee to that God...I think that is the only reason we are where we are today...

However, we are capitalists too, so "In God we Trust" all others, pay cash...:eek: ;) :D
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Love and devotion is often expressed with money. Why do you think so many families and marriages break down? Can you have a religion where there is no money involved?:eek: :confused: :D
 
Saltmeister said:
200 million? Woa. Hey, I thought America's population was about 300 million?

Did you really mean 20 million? Or 2 million? I doubt whether America's military would be 67 % of its population, that two in three of all Americans are soldiers. Who would make the guns? Grow the food and crops? Gather the resources? Design the weapons and technology? Typing mistake?
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I think this is the difference between military and militia. Should the perverbial poop hit the fan there would probably be in excess of 67% dusting off their weapons, sledge hammers and tool kits, creating improvised devices to raise havoc with any invader at any cost....hmmmmm
 
I'll have to revert to my idea about Christian ethnicity. America is ethnically Christian. In that sense we are a Christian nation. Our sense of heritage, nationalism, identity...is heavily flavored with Christian ethics and ethnicity. It's intrinsic in our culture.

Seperation of church and state functions primarily to prevent government interference in religion. When religion and government coexist properly they are both a check on the other, and mutually beneficial. That's the situation in this country, and you can credit the founder's vision for that. However, we aren't immune from having religion used as an agent of nationalistic propaganda, as the past six years have clearly demonstrated.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I'll have to revert to my idea about Christian ethnicity. America is ethnically Christian. In that sense we are a Christian nation. Our sense of heritage, nationalism, identity...is heavily flavored with Christian ethics and ethnicity. It's intrinsic in our culture.

Seperation of church and state functions primarily to prevent government interference in religion. When religion and government coexist properly they are both a check on the other, and mutually beneficial. That's the situation in this country, and you can credit the founder's vision for that. However, we aren't immune from having religion used as an agent of nationalistic propaganda, as the past six years have clearly demonstrated.

Chris
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That is a load of bull. We are in trouble here. We've been attacked once, what makes anyone think it won't happen again? We are a hated people Chris. Not just us but anyone who isn't Muslim and Arab. Did you know that Muslims not Arab are considered second class people? It doesn't matter why, just that it is. I look forward to this new democratic run government...I can't wait to see the results. They're gonna fix us all...so they promise.

We shall see.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
That is a load of bull. We are in trouble here. We've been attacked once, what makes anyone think it won't happen again? We are a hated people Chris. Not just us but anyone who isn't Muslim and Arab. Did you know that Muslims not Arab are considered second class people? It doesn't matter why, just that it is. I look forward to this new democratic run government...I can't wait to see the results. They're gonna fix us all...so they promise.

We shall see.

v/r

Joshua
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I dunno Josh. If they wanted to attack us again they could have easily. There's nothing preventing some whacko with a vest stuffed with explosives from detonating himself at the local McDonalds any day of the week, but that hasn't happened. It seems to me that terrorists got exactly what they wanted.

And look how successful our government has been at snowing people into believing that half of America is abbetting the enemy. They've got people thinking that it's a religious: Christians versus Muslims, thing. That's what I'd call successful propaganda. They got people like you to turn on your fellow countrymen in the name of religion flavored nationalism. That's what happens when the government adopts a "jam it up your ass" foreign policy coupled with a "with us or against us", "my way or the highway" domestic posture couched in thinly disguised messianic doublespeak. I'm glad we've returned to divided government. Perhaps now this lunacy will abate.

Nothing is this simple Josh. Geopolitics are complex and complicated. The unrest in the Middle East isn't just a Muslim thing. Islam may be the vehicle, but it's not the cause. And we didn't invade and occupy Iraq in the name of Christianity. But there's no shortage of Muslim clerics and pundits who are manipulating their people to believe it's a clash of religions too. Isn't there an obvious similarity there in how the propaganda works?

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I dunno Josh. If they wanted to attack us again they could have easily. There's nothing preventing some whacko with a vest stuffed with explosives from detonating himself at the local McDonalds any day of the week, but that hasn't happened. It seems to me that terrorists got exactly what they wanted.

And look how successful our government has been at snowing people into believing that half of America is abbetting the enemy. They've got people thinking that it's a religious: Christians versus Muslims, thing. That's what I'd call successful propaganda. They got people like you to turn on your fellow countrymen in the name of religion flavored nationalism. That's what happens when the government adopts a "jam it up your ass" foreign policy coupled with a "with us or against us", "my way or the highway" domestic posture couched in thinly disguised messianic doublespeak. I'm glad we've returned to divided government. Perhaps now this lunacy will abate.

Nothing is this simple Josh. Geopolitics are complex and complicated. The unrest in the Middle East isn't just a Muslim thing. Islam may be the vehicle, but it's not the cause. And we didn't invade and occupy Iraq in the name of Christianity. But there's no shortage of Muslim clerics and pundits who are manipulating their people to believe it's a clash of religions too. Isn't there an obvious similarity there in how the propaganda works?

Chris
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I guess you don't read the news much...maybe we're getting smarter...?

try Dearborn, Michigan and Chicago, Illinois, both industrial areas...
 
Our resident muslims are for the most part moderate. Many of them are here because they don't WANT to be under the thumb of extremist clergy. Most muslims who take up residency in this country are professionals, largely trained here in U.S. schools. They are engineers and doctors, lawyers, professors, scientists and technicians. This isn't Europe whjere large numbers of Arabic and Turkish speaking laborers are imported to become second-class citizens. I just did a mental inventory of the thirty or so muslims I know with some degree of familiarity. Nine are doctors (two of those are a husband and wife-he's a cardiologist and she's an anesthicist), three are university professors, two are lawyers and a half-dozen are scentists or engineers. Five are middle-to upper level civil servants. Their children go to our schools, get educated and go on to professional careers for the greatest part.

Don't confuse the U.S. with European nations who are looking for fresh supplies of menial task doers, and then 'keep them in their place'.

Regards,
Scott
 
Quahom1 said:
That is a load of bull. We are in trouble here. We've been attacked once, what makes anyone think it won't happen again? We are a hated people Chris. Not just us but anyone who isn't Muslim and Arab. Did you know that Muslims not Arab are considered second class people? It doesn't matter why, just that it is. I look forward to this new democratic run government...I can't wait to see the results. They're gonna fix us all...so they promise.

We shall see.

v/r

Joshua
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Assallaam aleykum Joshua,

I am afraid that in some parts of the World your Country is hated and in many other parts (even in your Allies Countries) you are disliked as a Nation.

You are often seen as a Child meddling in things that you don't understand. Why in Gods name did you on invading Iraq disband the Army and Police ? Completely barking mad! This is one example (of many) of how and why people view you without much respect.

I think your claims that anyone who is not 'Muslim and Arab' is also hated is not a generally correct.

Your claim that Muslims who are not Arabs are regarded as second class people is complete and utter tosh.

It appears that your opinions are based on minimal experience of Muslims and Arabs. Perhaps a little compassion and a less fearful look at the World might help your perception of reality.

Peace
 
Quahom1 said:
America is One nation, under God, and is in one hell of a crisis right now. Not since the pre civil war years has the American people been so decidedly divided into two camps, both thinking they are absolutely correct.
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You speak the TRUTH. Never in the 230 year of this great empire, has our country of multi-national tax servants who place greater FAITH in government than in children... never has our empire been so divided. Over half of our alledged citizens now believe in sinful ways to deny the FAITH in their spouses and children. The rest of us remaining few faithful believers who obey the commandments and see that breaking those vows before God, to separate what God has joined for any and all worldly reasons is an outright crime against humanity. Sinners! This hideous threat of divorcees is choking the empire. The adulterous generation came in the night to propagate and divide the empire at an alarming rate. Their children fail to witness any LOVE between parents in a family. They become the empire's terrorists. We the few remaining faithful must answer the call to arms in the final crusade, the WAR against divorcees. We must protect their children from becoming our criminals. Either you are for us or against us... for the LOVE of God and people we must fight this adulterous generation of faithless divorcees. Scientific studies are showing that conversing, consoling, aiding or abetting a divorcer, adulterer, fornicator, or masterbator increases the rate of baby making terrorists. Say NO to division... invite the divorcers to be UNITED with the vows and family they made, or throw them out. Just one rancid egg in the melting pot soils the whole pot.
 
Abubakar said:
I am afraid that in some parts of the World your Country is hated and in many other parts (even in your Allies Countries) you are disliked as a Nation.
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Maybe it's time the U.S. went back to its isolationist past.

Time to mind one's own business and keep to oneself. Stop poking one's nose into other people's countries. A sniff in the right direction.

Abubakar said:
You are often seen as a Child meddling in things that you don't understand. Why in Gods name did you on invading Iraq disband the Army and Police ? Completely barking mad! This is one example (of many) of how and why people view you without much respect.
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The infrastructure of the previous political system had to be dissolved to prevent it from undermining the new. I guess the American occupiers were more interested in setting up a new political system than in ensuring law and order . . . what a farce.
 
Saltmeister said:
The infrastructure of the previous political system had to be dissolved to prevent it from undermining the new. I guess the American occupiers were more interested in setting up a new political system than in ensuring law and order . . . what a farce.
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I think you are being very charitable in atributing motives.

I guess they either didn't have a clue or didn't care and certainly didn't think.

I think this is an example of why 'America' taking the moral high ground is not taken seriously outside the US and Tony Blairs brain:

Georgia Man Fights Conviction as Molester - New York Times


I would point out that I do realise that US Government Policy has plenty of opposition amongst the American people, and I do not judge one by the actions of the other.
 
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