Breaking the Sound Barrier

Quahom1

Quahom1

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Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Nick the Pilot said:
Earl,

That site gives the same explanation you gave. I was merely trying to show that, even if a thousand people hold a belief, they are not necessarily right.

They key is the Chinese characters for Kwan Yin ("Sound that can be seen"), which has not been affected by centuries of public opinion.

I especially enjoyed the music, as you said. I have had previous lifetimes as a Buddhist monk (I am neither Buddhist nor a monk in this life) and it brings back memories.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the ancients saw a craft breaking the sound barrier... (Kwan Yin ("Sound that can be seen"), ). It is an awesome sight to behold.

f18.jpg
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Quahom,

That is a cool picture. I remember seeing it during my flight-school days. (I am an airline pilot.) I have an mpg of something very similar -- you have got to check it out.
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Nick the Pilot said:
Quahom,

That is a cool picture. I remember seeing it during my flight-school days. (I am an airline pilot.) I have an mpg of something very similar -- you have got to check it out.
Click to expand...

I would be honored and enjoy that, indeed, sir.
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

wil said:
Tons of good pix here...

and discussion of exactly what we are seeing...

definitely not the last logos on the topic.
Click to expand...

Interesting, except I think one like Chris (china cat) can dispel the mythos of the sound barrier not existing, and the picture of it not being real. He sat in the seat of an F-15 at mach 1 plus...so let us hear from him (you wouldn't believe me anyway).:o

v/r

Joshua
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Quahom1 said:
Interesting, except I think one like Chris (china cat) can dispel the mythos of the sound barrier not existing, and the picture of it not being real. He sat in the seat of an F-15 at mach 1 plus...so let us hear from him (you wouldn't believe me anyway).:o
Click to expand...

Our very own Top Gun? (I know, they were F-14s, right?)

Strike Eagle works for me ... I wanted to hear the F-4s take off at Pope AFB awhile back, and that was plenty loud. Then the Warthogs at the local airshow put the F4s to shame. Tankbusters have been my favorite plane since I's a kid, alongside the B-36.

Sad part is, pretty well all of these are already being retired (or long since) - just not for the right reasons!

My favorite flight ever - will probably always be in a Piper SuperCub, at Kill Devil Hills, NC (where the Wright's "invented" it). I sat behind a former stunt pilot, and good friend ... who gracefully sideslipped the little craft into a flawless landing. :)

andrew
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

When I was a kid, I flew the garden hose into the sky with a kite and made it rain. Does that count?:o
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Kindest Regards all!
wil said:
Tons of good pix here...

and discussion of exactly what we are seeing...

definitely not the last logos on the topic.
Click to expand...
Took a quick look...can I play sceptic for a moment?

What in tarnation is a helicopter doing among the pics with jets breaking the barrier? With remarkably similar photographic imagery, almost as if done by the same photographer? (or...dare I say...photoshop manipulator?)

I am no expert, I have not been intimately involved with military aircraft, but I have been around a few. Enough to know a helicopter cannot, because of inherent difficulties with the design, fly faster than sound. It would shatter itself to pieces, the rotary wings could not withstand the shock.

I am not suggesting aircraft do not pierce the barrier...but until I see better supporting evidence, I question that these specific photos are actually of what they claim to be.

Even if they are pretty cool to look at! ;) :D
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

I was an F-16 crew chief in the USAF. I got to go backseat twice as a reward, once for being Maintainence Professional of the Year, and the second for some other achievement thing, I don't recall exactly.

I don't know exactly what the sound "barrier" consists of, but I know what I experienced penetrating it. Approaching the mach one point the mach meter begins to act irratically. It bounces around just under the mach one mark as the aircraft shudders and buffets about. Then the meter jumps past the mach one mark as the aircraft breaks free of whatever is causing all the vibration. It's similar decellerating back through the mach. It's as if the plane has to leap through a barrier. One moment you're on one side, and then suddenly on the other. It's not a smooth, linear transition in speed, you snap from one side to the other. The mach meter never registers an even mach one. It jumps from slightly less than, to slightly more than mach, and vice versa.

Chris
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

China Cat Sunflower said:
I was an F-16 crew chief in the USAF. I got to go backseat twice as a reward, once for being Maintainence Professional of the Year, and the second for some other achievement thing, I don't recall exactly.

I don't know exactly what the sound "barrier" consists of, but I know what I experienced penetrating it. Approaching the mach one point the mach meter begins to act irratically. It bounces around just under the mach one mark as the aircraft shudders and buffets about. Then the meter jumps past the mach one mark as the aircraft breaks free of whatever is causing all the vibration. It's similar decellerating back through the mach. It's as if the plane has to leap through a barrier. One moment you're on one side, and then suddenly on the other. It's not a smooth, linear transition in speed, you snap from one side to the other. The mach meter never registers an even mach one. It jumps from slightly less than, to slightly more than mach, and vice versa.

Chris
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When travelling at the speed of sound, the sound you produce is travelling at the same speed you are--the sound doesn't leave you, nor do you leave the sound. I'm sure the increasing accumulation of the vibration is enough to shake the speedometer into inaccuracy, until you gain enough speed to leave the sound you produce behind.
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

seattlegal said:
When travelling at the speed of sound, the sound you produce is travelling at the same speed you are--the sound doesn't leave you, nor do you leave the sound.
Click to expand...

and in space...no one can hear you scream.:D
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Kindest Regards, all!
seattlegal said:
When travelling at the speed of sound, the sound you produce is travelling at the same speed you are--the sound doesn't leave you, nor do you leave the sound. I'm sure the increasing accumulation of the vibration is enough to shake the speedometer into inaccuracy, until you gain enough speed to leave the sound you produce behind.
Click to expand...
I thought sound travels at 600 odd miles per hour (at sea level), so the sound of your voice wouldn't "travel with you" as such, would it? I am thinking Doppler effect. It does raise an interesting question, if a man (male gender) says something above the speed of sound, without the use of electronics and radio, and there is nobody around to hear his delayed voice as it struggles to catch up with him, is he still wrong?

Of course, if traversing the sound threshold creates such interesting side effects / by products, just imagine what traversing the speed of light would do. Maybe you could see yourself coming along before you ever left...

AAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!

Oh, sorry, that was my scream catching up to me after having gone through the sound barrier. :D
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

I don't know if this is apocryphal or not, but ...

During WWII, my mother lived in London ... she missed the worst of the Blitz, being evacuated to Ireland, but came home cos her relatives were a tad too severe ...

She remembers the VI flying bombs - doodle bugs - with their pulsing drone, then the sudden cutout, ominous silence, and then bang (one of which collapsed the house she was living in).

She also tells me she remembers how much more frightening was the VII, as it was faster than sound, and so not seen nor heard, until it hit ... so a massive explosion, with no warning ... the Govt. kept quiet for a while, blaming gas mains, unexploded bombs, etc, but the news got out.

She swears she heard the sound of the thing arriving, after the explosion ... which, if according to wiki, it dropped from an altitude of 100–110 km (60–70 miles) at up to four times the speed of sound I suppose could be right?

Thomas
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Mods...You think we oughta move the sound barrier discussion over to science or something and seperate these posts from this thread?

in the mpeg I saw the cone happen twice in a very short distance??

please explain was the barrier broke, jet slowed and broke again...surely didn't hit mach 1 and 2 in such short order...

truth or fiction indicates the condensation is from something other than the sound barrier??
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

wil said:
Mods...You think we oughta move the sound barrier discussion over to science or something and seperate these posts from this thread?

in the mpeg I saw the cone happen twice in a very short distance??

please explain was the barrier broke, jet slowed and broke again...surely didn't hit mach 1 and 2 in such short order...

truth or fiction indicates the condensation is from something other than the sound barrier??
Click to expand...

A sensible request...done. :)

--luna
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

wil said:
Mods...You think we oughta move the sound barrier discussion over to science or something and seperate these posts from this thread?

in the mpeg I saw the cone happen twice in a very short distance??

please explain was the barrier broke, jet slowed and broke again...surely didn't hit mach 1 and 2 in such short order...

truth or fiction indicates the condensation is from something other than the sound barrier??
Click to expand...
Apparently at 750 knots sea level, the object approaching the sound barrier can be buffeted enough to hesistate in and out of the barrier until the engines push past. I believe that is what we just observed. I have also seen F-18s at wave top level moving so fast the water below erupted in mini geysers (just like in the movies). I also read that a pursuing fighter avoids the jet wash of the plane in front at supersonic speeds, else the engines can stall and the pursuing fighter can end up in a flat spin (unless one is flying the upgraded Mig-29/35from Russia) You should take a look at what this fighter can do! It's unbelievable!
Clip A Day - The Freshest Video Clips On The Net Served Up Daily: Amazing Russian Fighter Jet Pilot

v/r

Joshua
 
Re: In the beginning was the Logos

Quahom1 said:
Apparently at 750 knots sea level, the object approaching the sound barrier can be buffeted enough to hesistate in and out of the barrier until the engines push past. I believe that is what we just observed.
Click to expand...
that makes sense as the 'cone' never quite developed in the first condensation but definitely held in the second.

It looks like their plan was to break the barrier right in front of the grandstands...that musta been deafening...

I've had'em roll over me in the hills of Nevada maybe 100' feet, maybe above the ground and the boom definitely followed the jet....we heard nothing stared at up at the underbellies of'em going by...and then got the wash of the wind and the boom...blew our little picnic all over the place...
 
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