Jamestown guides allegedly ordered to say 'religious' instead of 'Christian'

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BlaznFattyz

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'All that is holy' gagged at America's birthplace
Tour guides at the American birthplace of Jamestown, Va., are being prevented from explaining Christian history and are under orders to refer to items such as the Ten Commandments and Lord's Prayer only as "religious" in nature.

That according to California pastor and researcher Todd DuBord who says he was stunned on a recent tour of the historic town when "our guide responded to our inquiry by saying that she was 'unable to speak about the plaques. We are only allowed to say they are religious plaques.'"
Jamestown is celebrating its 400th anniversary this year.

When the issue arose, DuBord's group was in the heart of the community which had been established in 1607 – 13 years before the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock, Mass. – to make money for the Virginia Company and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ on orders from the newly crowned King James I.

Cont'd
 
BlaznFattyz said:
....When the issue arose, DuBord's group was in the heart of the community which had been established in 1607 – 13 years before the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock, Mass. – to make money for the Virginia Company and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ on orders from the newly crowned King James I.

Cont'd
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established to make money and spread the Gospel...

So the goal was to first educate those heathens that lived on this land (hard to teach the Gospel if they can't read the language...and somehow I doubt that they had intentions of learning the local language...uh oh not trying to start any commentary about how an immigrant should act in a foriegn land...) Well, I don't know the history of how well exactly the Virginia Company did on making money...but our history with the native peoples is pretty well documented.
 
wil said:
established to make money and spread the Gospel...

... Well, I don't know the history of how well exactly the Virginia Company did on making money...but our history with the native peoples is pretty well documented.
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"In God We Trust" is on our money for a reason. It DOES take money to things well.

Are you suggesting that because of the ignorant and atrocious way that the natives were treated, we should be paralyzed from our very unique and successful heritage?
 
pattimax said:
"In God We Trust" is on our money for a reason. It DOES take money to things well.

Are you suggesting that because of the ignorant and atrocious way that the natives were treated, we should be paralyzed from our very unique and successful heritage?
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Namaste Pattimax,

I've had the benefit of visiting Jamestown/Yorktown area many times. Our history there is quite interesting...100 years after Columbus they were sent out yet again to find a shorter route around the world. I do find it ironic that while we are talking about putting up a fence to protect our selves from invaders the first thing the invaders did was put up a fence to protect themselves from the occupants of this land.

I also find it ironic, that while they were sent here to bring home the gold...litterally...what they did provide the world with is the beginnings of our illustrious tobacco economy and worldwide distribution of this wonderful crop.

Yes, out of the over 200 settlers 2/3 gave their lives trying for the first few years...they gave up the ghost and abandoned the town...unbeknownst to them reinforcements were on the way and Jamestown was adminsitered CPR. Yes, some of the beginnings of governmental/big business collaboration whilst occupying foriegn lands were started at that very spot with King James and the Virgina Company... another analogy to US/Haliburton/Bechtel at various overseas locations.

As Jamestown, Williamsburg are places where I enjoy visiting and learning about our heritage...(I don't simply look at the dark side....I do insist on shining a light on it and not burying it though...we must admit and understand our history or simply continue to repeat it.) I will double check the story of our illustrious pastor from California... as every trip to these villages in the past has been replete with their Christian heritage. As we must remember....every colonist was required by law to attend church services on Sunday...And their was only one church in town... and the stocks in both towns, Williamsburg and Jamestown, are a short jaunt from the church, so should one be punished for not attending those that did could easily taunt those that didn't...

Little more interesting history...no jails back then...not even upto the formation of our Union...there was a jayle, but it was simply a holding cell until trial. Your sentence choices were few...a fine...some time in the pillary...some community service(servitude/slavery)...banishment (often meant death)...or death, they surely wouldn't waste time and effort housing and feeding anyone.

rather than continue to bore you, should one want to know how and why In G-d We Trust was added to our coins 250 years after Jamestown...you can find it here...or why 'one nation was under G-d' was added to our pledge almost another 100 years later...it is interesting how our past isn't as we think of it, and things in our present haven't been going on as long as we thought....
 
pattimax said:
Kinda makes you want to wear sandals and
carry a sign.:(
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lol, now while I have been known to wear sandals and carry signs...no surpise there huh? Truth is I really love this country and Christianity....I just don't go around wearing rose colored glasses and denying (not saying anyone else is) our faults and mistakes. When my kids make a mistake I correct them. When my office makes a mistake we try to correct it. Burying our heads in the sand is of no use.

But I don't believe everything I read and hear...

And will make a trip down to see what I can see..
My kids will always benefit from more history!
 
wil said:
I do find it ironic that while we are talking about putting up a fence to protect our selves from invaders the first thing the invaders did was put up a fence to protect themselves from the occupants of this land.

I also find it ironic, that while they were sent here to bring home the gold...litterally...what they did provide the world with is the beginnings of our illustrious tobacco economy and worldwide distribution of this wonderful crop.

Yes, out of the over 200 settlers 2/3 gave their lives trying for the first few years...rather than continue to bore you, should one want to know how and why In G-d We Trust was added to our coins 250 years after Jamestown...you can find it here...or why 'one nation was under G-d' was added to our pledge almost another 100 years later...it is interesting how our past isn't as we think of it, and things in our present haven't been going on as long as we thought....
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Greetings wil
You find it ironic that fear was prevalent?
You also find it ironic that they wanted to make money?

Shining a light into the shadows is somewhat beneficial, but you do not need to shine a light on the Ten Commandments or The Lord's Prayer and that is what we are talking about. In efforts to promote plurality we are shoving the things that did make us what we are (a government that doesn't change form) aside.

I am very well aware that our past is not perfect, but you know as well as I do that we live in paradise compared to much of the world. And we do have a Christian heritage.

Do not you find it ironic that some of the powers that be are trying to eliminate what made this country what it is?


Thanks for the info and link on God additions.(I wasn't bored.) But my point was it takes money and trusting God always works.
 
pattimax said:
"In God We Trust" is on our money for a reason. It DOES take money to things well.

Are you suggesting that because of the ignorant and atrocious way that the natives were treated, we should be paralyzed from our very unique and successful heritage?
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That is a relatively new "phrase" put on our money (in the US), less than 100 years old. James Town was massacred by local natives, which is why Plymouth Rock Pilgrims are considered the success story. However, that might be because the Mass Pilgrims weren't above murdering, ambushing or grave robbing in order to survive, inititally. The folks at James River, did no such things, and the natives didn't help them much either, by way of survival.
 
pattimax said:
I am very well aware that our past is not perfect, but you know as well as I do that we live in paradise compared to much of the world. And we do have a Christian heritage.

Do not you find it ironic that some of the powers that be are trying to eliminate what made this country what it is?
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What do you think that many of the founding fathers were Masons? Are they still branded as heretical as they once were?

Which powers that be do you believe are behind this change? Most of Congress and Senate is still Christian and every President I've ever known of is always going to church...Clinton used to make it a point to wave with the hand he had the bible in...
 
wil said:
What do you think that many of the founding fathers were Masons? Are they still branded as heretical as they once were?

Which powers that be do you believe are behind this change? Most of Congress and Senate is still Christian and every President I've ever known of is always going to church...Clinton used to make it a point to wave with the hand he had the bible in...
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:rolleyes: please, and the muslims are going to take over the USA.

Here is what will happen. there will be another civil war, and it won't be based on borders. Then the opposition will come in once we are divided, and will slaughter all.

Just like the crap that happened with the James town folk. They tried to make a go with the locals, but it didn't happen well...unfortunately they were not strong enough to repel the opposition, and died. The fought like hell when it was too late (this we know), but were overwhelmed by the opposition, who never bothered to bury their bones...
 
wil said:
What do you think that many of the founding fathers were Masons? Are they still branded as heretical as they once were?

Which powers that be do you believe are behind this change? Most of Congress and Senate is still Christian and every President I've ever known of is always going to church...Clinton used to make it a point to wave with the hand he had the bible in...
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…okay, I’m not quite sure what you are saying about the masons, but aren’t they into salvation by works? That is probably what the heresy is about. Before and during the revolutionary war, scripture interpretation was pretty low on the list of priorities.

Twenty-six out of fifty-seven of the signers of the declaration of independence had seminary degrees, so I think they knew what they were doing. (they didn’t just wave a bible around.)

Who/what I meant by the powers that be are the local government officials that gag anyone speaking at an invocation from using the name Jesus Christ and the idiots insisting on “Happy Holidays,” (I know I’m out of season, I just want my pendulum back…)

Who/what I meant by the powers that be are schools that are letting kids grow up ignorant. Didn’t you mention that you are teaching your kids history? They are fortunate. Don’t get me wrong, I know some education is phenomenal and the kids are brilliant, but our Christian heritage is being erased and therefore the future is uncertain.

Who/what I meant by the powers that be are the liberal national media that are taking well balanced, calm and rational thought and placing it into a box labeled Christian caricature and then pouring hysteria into it.

Karen
 
pattimax said:
... ABefore and during the revolutionary war, scripture interpretation was pretty low on the list of priorities.

BTwenty-six out of fifty-seven of the signers of the declaration of independence had seminary degrees

C... our Christian heritage is being erased and therefore the future is uncertain.

D Who/what I meant by the powers that be are the liberal national media that are taking well balanced, calm and rational thought and placing it into a box labeled Christian caricature and then pouring hysteria into it.
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Namaste Karen,

I'm having a hard time reconciling A & B. One statement seems to indicate one thing and the very next sentence exactly the opposite. As far as I knew our early and precountry fairly revolved around biblical study and discussion... (as I think it always does in cases of strife and struggle, hence the strength and growth of Islam. To me the US overall econmic success is part of the decline of Christianity...when you've got 400 channels and a stocked fridge, and conditioned air no need to pray...) And most interesting to me is this was done in the home and when one was sent off to school they were expected to learn the three R's.... How many Christian homes do you think today start off with scripture reading...or even discuss scripture or passages on a daily basis? I know not many that I deal with. Largely in this country Christianity is a Sunday morning thing...immediately followed by NASCAR, Basketball, Baseball or Football...I know their are many exceptions, but I'd say they number about 3-5% of our population and that is no fault of our teachers, schools, government or media....unless of course one advocates requiring religion...but that is sort of why we left our homelands to begin with...


C our Christian heritage is quite diverse....I often recommend folks read and comment on the the works of one of our early presidents and in large part author of our government...the Jeffersonian Bible however this appears to be a sore subject that this man was so heretical for his time....and ours today.


D The liberal media...I deal on a regular basis with all walks of life, the ultra conservative and the ultra liberal...one thing I always see is one caricaturing the other..making bold one sided statements...going to their corners with ridiculous demands and discussion points...Both sides have thier faults and only speak of their side of the story... Quite interesting when the CATO institute set out to prove the liberal bias of the media...they found it liberal leaning...but very small percent overall...and found the conservative papers/magazines/radio/tv were more off of center than the 'liberal' were...I give them credit though for publishing their report...unlike the study on spotted owls a couple decades ago that was covered up when it was discovered that their favorite nesting spots were not old growth forest...but on the top of telephone poles.... Just wondering, would you characterize Blazn's selections of 'Christian News' to be one sided and biased...or evenly balanced? Pendelum swings both ways.
 
This is from the reference notes at the end of the Vision Forum link provided in OP.

9. Avi Arditti of Voice of America noted the following in a May 28, 2000 news story, “Officials in Virginia have decided to stop using the word ‘celebration’ in connection with the four-hundredth anniversary of Jamestown. Established in 1607, Jamestown was the first permanent English settlement in the New World. It’s an event that descendents of the Native Americans who were already here — and the African slaves who came later — find hard to celebrate.”
10. When the steering committee changed their name from “Celebration 2007” to “Jamestown 2007” in response to pressure from American Indians, Mary Wade — one of their leading activists — explained the reason why in a radio interview with Voice of America’s Avi Arditti, “You can’t celebrate an invasion...[The Indians] were pushed back off of their land, even killed. Whole tribes were annihilated. A lot of people carry that oral history with them, and that’s why they use the word ‘invasion,’ because it truly was an invasion, and I’m sure some of the Indian people will probably want to tell that as a part of the story of 400 years.”
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I'm not saying that the history of America should exclude the side of those in my ancestry who fled from Europe. However, it should not brush aside the history it assimilated, either. My ancestors were both. And American history and "celebration" should consider both in the Spirit of Peace and Truth.

InPeace,
InLove
 
wil said:
Namaste Karen,

I'm having a hard time reconciling A & B. One statement seems to indicate one thing and the very next sentence exactly the opposite. As far as I knew our early and precountry fairly revolved around biblical study and discussion... (as I think it always does in cases of strife and struggle, hence the strength and growth of Islam. To me the US overall econmic success is part of the decline of Christianity...when you've got 400 channels and a stocked fridge, and conditioned air no need to pray...) And most interesting to me is this was done in the home and when one was sent off to school they were expected to learn the three R's.... How many Christian homes do you think today start off with scripture reading...or even discuss scripture or passages on a daily basis? I know not many that I deal with. Largely in this country Christianity is a Sunday morning thing...immediately followed by NASCAR, Basketball, Baseball or Football...I know their are many exceptions, but I'd say they number about 3-5% of our population and that is no fault of our teachers, schools, government or media....unless of course one advocates requiring religion...but that is sort of why we left our homelands to begin with...
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Greetings wil,

The fact that you cannot reconcile a and b could be because you are safely viewing the issue from a 21st century perspective.


I don't think enough Christian homes truly focus on God. Nor do they make Sunday very restful.


Tell me, why did the U. S. form? I would like to know your thoughts on the matter.

I don't have time to respond to your c and d, but I will later.
 
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Namaste In Love and Pattimax...

InLove, you've identified the issue that struck me when I read the article. And I truly can't see the difference between how many of us see what is called the current invasion of illegal aliens and the ones that arrived 400 years ago. And odds are that the result will be similar...no not anihilation this time, but assimilation...and the 'intruders' will win.

Karen, back to your question...

Why did the United States form? Well they would all roll over if they saw how we interpretted their words...

The US formed because the local entrepreneurial, land owning, business running colonists were tired of being taxed by away government with no control over their own destiny. They were tired of paying tariffs on imports from other lands, and on the goods they shipped out. They grew tired of paying tariffs on goods going from one colony to the other and religious oppression.

So they formed a declaration and a loose organization of states...ie seperate states united for a common cause...much like the EU today.

They made some statements...all money would only be of Gold and Silver period..(no paper money, they were afraid of runaway inflation)...they agreed no tariffs state to state (No user taxes like charged today when buying goods from other states)...they did not want licensing other than those operating a business (governmental control of methods of travel)..they wanted freedom to own arms (in order to keep the government from taking the rights from the citizenry)...the wanted only excise taxes on non essential goods and no income tax (otherwise the gov't would grow out of control)...they wanted a gov't of citizen not proffessional politicians...local representatives that they could easily vote out if they didn't like their thinking (no incumbent benefit) and a freedom to worship as they wish (not having to attend the Anglican Church of England)

All of these have pretty much been circumvented over the years...and their reasons for putting it in writing, the discussions of what would happen have come into being...

back to A&B and my 21st century perspective...

How do I reconcile the statement that scripture was low on their priorities, yet the majority were Seminarians...seemingly indicating high on their priorities.... I see religion (whatever religion) strongest where economic conditions are bad...and weaker where economic conditions are good...yes a generalization, but also true. As a people we are down and out we look to G-d to help us a lot more than when we are fat and happy...not saying it is right.
 
InLove said:
This is from the reference notes at the end of the Vision Forum link provided in OP.



I'm not saying that the history of America should exclude the side of those in my ancestry who fled from Europe. However, it should not brush aside the history it assimilated, either. My ancestors were both. And American history and "celebration" should consider both in the Spirit of Peace and Truth.

InPeace,
InLove
Click to expand...

;)
 
I'm not saying that the history of America should exclude the side of those in my ancestry who fled from Europe. However, it should not brush aside the history it assimilated, either. My ancestors were both. And American history and "celebration" should consider both in the Spirit of Peace and Truth.

Well said, but because of this no Ten Commandments or Lords Prayer. You know, the issue. tsk, tsk, tsk.
 
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