Jamestown guides allegedly ordered to say 'religious' instead of 'Christian'

wil said:
C our Christian heritage is quite diverse....I often recommend folks read and comment on the the works of one of our early presidents and in large part author of our government...the Jeffersonian Bible however this appears to be a sore subject that this man was so heretical for his time....and ours today.


D The liberal media...I deal on a regular basis with all walks of life, the ultra conservative and the ultra liberal...one thing I always see is one caricaturing the other..making bold one sided statements...going to their corners with ridiculous demands and discussion points...Both sides have thier faults and only speak of their side of the story... Quite interesting when the CATO institute set out to prove the liberal bias of the media...they found it liberal leaning...but very small percent overall...and found the conservative papers/magazines/radio/tv were more off of center than the 'liberal' were...I give them credit though for publishing their report...unlike the study on spotted owls a couple decades ago that was covered up when it was discovered that their favorite nesting spots were not old growth forest...but on the top of telephone poles.... Just wondering, would you characterize Blazn's selections of 'Christian News' to be one sided and biased...or evenly balanced? Pendelum swings both ways.
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C. as for Christian diversity, okay. As for the Jeffersonian Bible, I am NOT talking about that.

D. Liberal NATIONAL media. And I realize there are some
Balanced national news reports, but the majority are left leaning. As for Blazn's selections-this IS the Christianity board.
 
wil said:
back to A&B and my 21st century perspective...

How do I reconcile the statement that scripture was low on their priorities, yet the majority were Seminarians...seemingly indicating high on their priorities.... I see religion (whatever religion) strongest where economic conditions are bad...and weaker where economic conditions are good...yes a generalization, but also true. As a people we are down and out we look to G-d to help us a lot more than when we are fat and happy...not saying it is right.
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I said scripture interpretation was pretty low on the list of priorities.

As in James vs. Paul. Salvation through grace just did not compute. Although we were up against the no. 1 military power in the world, so I am really not suprised.
 
pattimax said:
Well said, but because of this no Ten Commandments or Lords Prayer. You know, the issue. tsk, tsk, tsk.
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Hi patti--

I posted those footnotes because the article itself linked to them in a roundabout way, without explaining in proper depth. The link shows Mary Wade's name in connection to the issue it states, so I thought it only right that her reasons in representing the Virginia Tribal Council's concerns should be noted.

Also, I don't think that the Virginia Tribes have any objection to The Ten Commandments or the Lord's Prayer being displayed on the tour. I might be wrong, but so far I haven't found anything along those lines. From what I understand, they just want a more accurate reflection of the history of Jamestown. But maybe since the government has still not formally recognized their constitutional rights, then maybe all that can be done is to hold those Commandments up to the light along with The Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance.

What the Virginia Tribal Council has asked for is that the word "Celebration" be changed to "Jamestown". And The Ten Commandments and The Lord's Prayer are technically "religious" items, just like some of the items in the "Indian corner" of the exhibit. I am thinking that if there is to be great detail given regarding the Divine Providence proclaimed by the European settlers, then there should be balanced "religious" studies from all sides.

Well, I could go on and on about this, but the information is available to anyone who is interested in the whole story. I think I will go on about other things for all our sakes, at least for now. Hopefully, they will work things out through proper and peaceful channels in the interest of liberty and justice for all. :)

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Hi patti--

I posted those footnotes because the article itself linked to them in a roundabout way, without explaining in proper depth. The link shows Mary Wade's name in connection to the issue it states, so I thought it only right that her reasons in representing the Virginia Tribal Council's concerns should be noted.

Also, I don't think that the Virginia Tribes have any objection to The Ten Commandments or the Lord's Prayer being displayed on the tour. I might be wrong, but so far I haven't found anything along those lines. From what I understand, they just want a more accurate reflection of the history of Jamestown. But maybe since the government has still not formally recognized their constitutional rights, then maybe all that can be done is to hold those Commandments up to the light along with The Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance.

What the Virginia Tribal Council has asked for is that the word "Celebration" be changed to "Jamestown". And The Ten Commandments and The Lord's Prayer are technically "religious" items, just like some of the items in the "Indian corner" of the exhibit. I am thinking that if there is to be great detail given regarding the Divine Providence proclaimed by the European settlers, then there should be balanced "religious" studies from all sides.

Well, I could go on and on about this, but the information is available to anyone who is interested in the whole story. I think I will go on about other things for all our sakes, at least for now. Hopefully, they will work things out through proper and peaceful channels in the interest of liberty and justice for all. :)

InPeace,
InLove
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Thanks for rounding this thread back on original track.

v/r

Joshua
 
InLove said:
Virginia Tribal Council's concerns should be noted.

Also, I don't think that the Virginia Tribes have any objection to The Ten Commandments or the Lord's Prayer being displayed on the tour.

Hopefully, they will work things out through proper and peaceful channels in the interest of liberty and justice for all. :)

InPeace,
InLove
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Let's hope so.

The Jamestown
Quadricentennial
A Celebration of America’s
Providential History — 1607 - 2007

…This historic commemoration will highlight the important role Jamestown played in introducing the Christian common law to North America, establishing the first experiment in republican representative government, conducting America’s first Protestant Christian worship services and baptisms, and presiding over America’s first interracial marriage between Pocahontas and John Rolfe.
 
pattimax said:
The Jamestown
Quadricentennial
A Celebration of America’s
Providential History — 1607 - 2007

…This historic commemoration will highlight the important role Jamestown played in introducing the Christian common law to North America, establishing the first experiment in republican representative government, conducting America’s first Protestant Christian worship services and baptisms, and presiding over America’s first interracial marriage between Pocahontas and John Rolfe.
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"our guide responded to our inquiry by saying that she was 'unable to speak about the plaques. We are only allowed to say they are religious plaques.'"

"While the tour guides at the Jamestown Settlement and Museum were cordial and informative on many points, we were all caught off guard by their unwillingness (yes, unwillingness) to discuss Jamestown's religious roots."

- I thought this was the issue, silly me.
 
In some ways... I can agree with that on money... I can imagine many don't trust in your god... So why should their money tender say that they do, when they don't...... Generalise it... Don't force stuff unto others :D But with the tour thing I can't see nor understand what the problem is... You go to see some place and you wan't to know about it's history... The fact it has christian ties... That shouldn't offend.. It isn't saying "Oh look at how glorious it is to be a christian join us now!" Just telling you the tour history ;/

--edit--

And I am sure that it must be relevant to the tour.... It's like going on a tour of say the tower of london... but not mentioning the prisoners that were held in there.
 
According to the Williamsburg online website which lists the events going on in Jamestown (Jamestown/Yorktown are in conjunction with Colonial Williamsburg) Each month's celebration is listed begining with:
January 2007 Jamestown Quadricentennial - 400th Anniversary Celebration continues throughout the year beginning with Religious Freedom Heritage Month in January! / Jamestown Settlement and Yorktown Victory Center / Call 888-593-4682 for information
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and ending with:
December 22
through 31:http://www.williamsburgon-line.com/calendar/index_calendar.html#top A Colonial Christmas - Holiday traditions from the English customs of the earliest Jamestown settlers through the desperate winters of the 18th-century American Revolution are explored. / Jamestown Settlement and Yorktown Victory Center / Call 888-593-4682 for information
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Oops, what did they say?? Heaven forbid? Religious Freedom...a month of discussing religion....must not have been when the good pastor was there! And horrors of horrors in December they are celebrating Christmas??

I see this stuff has got Vision Forum Ministries to set up a march on Jamestown in June...of course that month they will be looking into the difference between the settlers culture and the native cultures...and if they don't specifically mention the Christian heritage during the discussion, woe be unto them...

If anyone ever has the urge to travel on Christmas...there is nothing like spending the holidays in Williamsburg. You stay at an inn, you travel the grounds during the day and night visiting houses of various economic classes and see how they celebrated the holidays, you visit the church and hear a recreation of the typical sermon, visit the businesses and see their preparations...all by candlelight and firelight, carolers and sleighs, it is a unique experience. Well worth doing once in your life....plan ahead, don't know how many years you'll currently have to wait to get a booking....
 
In chemistry, He turned water to wine.
In biology, He was born without the normal conception;
In physics, He disapproved the law of gravity when He ascended into heaven;
In economics, He disapproved the law of diminishing return by feeding 5000 men with two fishes & 5 loaves of bread;
In medicine, He cured the sick and the blind without administering a single dose of drugs,
In history, He is the beginning and the end;
In government, He said that he shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace;
In religion, He said no one comes to the Father except through him.

SSSHHHH!
 
Hi Everyone--

After a couple of nights of pretty good sleep, and after much meditation in prayer about this conversation, I have decided to respond once more. Believe me, I tried to leave things alone, but I just can't. I cannot leave this thread hanging like it is, for posterity's sake.

Patti, Q, everyone--I hope I will be forgiven for pointing out that the legend of "Pocohontas" as generally accepted in European circles is a dubious one. There are numerous versions of the story, including the one handed down orally (and now in writing) through the family of Powhaten, Matoaka's father. I see that Jamestown has attempted in recent years, to present what they call "a balanced version". However, I think that (and hopefully, this relates to "the issue"--I know it does in my eyes) if folks think it is helpful to emphasize the idea of Divine Providence in remembrance of how this nation was born, then why not also take an honest look at how the Natives experienced it. Why not explore it? If Divine Providence is for real, than whatever the Powhatens have to say can't change it, now can it? It isn't pretty, by the way, but I think that the people of this "princess" should be able to contribute. Maybe it would be good for people to compare the traditional story we all learned in elementary school, the "balanced version" coming out of Jamestown, and the version set forth by the Powhatens. And I'm not advocating a big, full-blown debate right here, either--I just think that someone ought to speak up and say what I am saying! So, I guess that is what I am doing.

I find it rather strange that a group from California comes out to Jamestown, a city which is obviously trying to work out the issue through proper channels, involving the Native views as well as the European, and gets in the middle of these negotiations. I just find it to be reactionary in nature, and I believe if these folks would look a bit farther before stirring up a kettle that is already being blended, they might see things a little clearer, and see that attempts are being made to tell the truth about our country.

Anyway, like I said, I just could not leave the thread to end the way it did. And (here I go again) I'm sorry if my views are upsetting anyone. But they are my views, and they are related to the issue set forth in the article. I feel that when a bottle such as this one is uncorked, then we should take time to taste the flavors of the ages that it contains. Some things are subtle, but there nonetheless.

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Hi Everyone--

After a couple of nights of pretty good sleep, and after much meditation in prayer about this conversation, I have decided to respond once more. Believe me, I tried to leave things alone, but I just can't. I cannot leave this thread hanging like it is, for posterity's sake.

Patti, Q, everyone--I hope I will be forgiven for pointing out that the legend of "Pocohontas" as generally accepted in European circles is a dubious one. There are numerous versions of the story, including the one handed down orally (and now in writing) through the family of Powhaten, Matoaka's father. I see that Jamestown has attempted in recent years, to present what they call "a balanced version". However, I think that (and hopefully, this relates to "the issue"--I know it does in my eyes) if folks think it is helpful to emphasize the idea of Divine Providence in remembrance of how this nation was born, then why not also take an honest look at how the Natives experienced it. Why not explore it? If Divine Providence is for real, than whatever the Powhatens have to say can't change it, now can it? It isn't pretty, by the way, but I think that the people of this "princess" should be able to contribute. Maybe it would be good for people to compare the traditional story we all learned in elementary school, the "balanced version" coming out of Jamestown, and the version set forth by the Powhatens. And I'm not advocating a big, full-blown debate right here, either--I just think that someone ought to speak up and say what I am saying! So, I guess that is what I am doing.

I find it rather strange that a group from California comes out to Jamestown, a city which is obviously trying to work out the issue through proper channels, involving the Native views as well as the European, and gets in the middle of these negotiations. I just find it to be reactionary in nature, and I believe if these folks would look a bit farther before stirring up a kettle that is already being blended, they might see things a little clearer, and see that attempts are being made to tell the truth about our country.

Anyway, like I said, I just could not leave the thread to end the way it did. And (here I go again) I'm sorry if my views are upsetting anyone. But they are my views, and they are related to the issue set forth in the article. I feel that when a bottle such as this one is uncorked, then we should take time to taste the flavors of the ages that it contains. Some things are subtle, but there nonetheless.

InPeace,
InLove
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I agree, things can be quite subtle. But distractions aside,
(InLove, I know you had the best of intentions and a very valid point of view)... I do not think I will say it again.

I DO appreciate that you did not leave it hanging. Thank you.

With Grace,
Karen

PS When you uncork an issue, show both sides, and leave it alone, will it go flat?
 
Hi Karen--thank you for your gracious response. The contents of the bottle will not go flat if we drink it all in. And in doing so, we drink to peace. (This is why I didn't pour it all out into the mix at one time--it could make things way too bitter.) ;) :)

Again, thank you.

InPeace,
InLove,
Debora
 
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