Christianity Brew Ha Ha

China Cat Sunflower

China Cat Sunflower

Nimrod
Messages
2,924
Reaction score
13
Points
0
This is in regards to the recent turmoil on Christianity:

First, I've never seen such a bunch of whiners. You all seem to think that somehow, some way, there's a magic formula for making everyone happy. The way I see it, what we had was a refreshing outbreak of honesty. The best we can hope for is an equalibrium of contention, where all forces are somewhat evenly matched. Kinda like a tug-of-war that can't be won.

Silas is the best thing that's happened to this forum since I've been here. He represents a genuine point of view which is authentically Christian. And everyone wants to shut him up. My God, what would happen if we all just said what we really think like Silas? Why, then there's no way we could keep up this false veneer of psuedo- "respect".

You can't legislate "respect." It has to be earned. And you'll never be able to find a definition of "Christianity" that makes everyone happy. So why not just make it about stopping personal attacks and let everything else go? A personal attack is a clear-cut thing. "Respect" is amorphous. Christianity is a huge, diverse stew of things. It's ethnic. I have never understood the effort that's been pored into isolating just what "pure Christianity" is. It's elitist and silly. Anything which lightly touches on anything having to do with Christianity is germain to the discussion. Why all the effort to compartmentalize? Why "Christianity" and "Liberal Christianity"? Why the need to placate the bigotry of some at the expense of others?

I said a long time ago that the solution was to have a "Christianity Fellowship", and a "Christianity for Debate" forum. But nobody flippin' listens around here.

Chris
 
Chris--have you been reading cyberpi? :D Mt. Silas....

I did not want the Lib board. But I am so glad it is there. Thanks, Ruby??? Well, yeah. If it hadn't been for the Lib board lately, there would have been no home garden for me. I would be visiting a lot with my Buddhist friends. Which I love to do, by the way, but I just don't comfortably type the language yet.

Chris, I don't believe that, at present, Silas represents the full heart of Christianity. I believe he is devoted to Christ, but he cannot speak for me and many others.

However, if you want to give him his mountain pulpit, fine. But if I am a "Liberal Christian", then Silas is surely a Calvinist.

Sorry, the Christian is not always a Calvinist.

Well, I have rambled. I have been inspired by China Cat and cyperpi. And some others. I find myself in good company.

InPeace,
InLove
 
Hi Deb!

What I mean is that Silas" point of view, and Andrew's point of view, and Wil's, and yours, and mine, and Pi's, and Josh's, and everyone else's...they're all genuinely Christian. It's all Christianity. Anything remotely related to Christianity, all the New Age stuff, all of it is Christianity. But we're still on this silly-ass "who's a real Christian" thing, when that has nothing to do with it.

I tell you what should happen. The Muslim mod should do Christianity and the Christian Mod should handle Islam. That would dipense with the agendas, which is what really needs to happen.

Chris
 
Chris--It's genius. (I think?) ;) :)

Anyway, I sure appreciated the opportunity to vent well.

LOL

(Hey Brian, how's it goin' :eek: :D)

InPeace,
InLove
 
I like Silas. His point of view is real. I'm not saying that's all there is to Christianity, I'm just saying that it represents a real life thing. Yeah, he's intollerant. Yeah, he doesn't listen. Yeah he's one-track, but he POSTS. He stirs things up. What do you all want? A dead little friendly coffee clutch board, or a dynamic, contentious, rockin' and rollin' with the punches board? Because that's what attracts posters, or not. People want to argue. That's what keeps things poppin'. If I agree with you I'll just let you say it for both of us, but if I disagree I'll feel compelled to POST. That's the crux of the biscuit. And anyone who's too much of a puss to stand behind what they post and take the heat doesn't deserve any respect. All we're doing is typing words. Nobody is actually gonna get their ass beat. So why all the fuss about protecting anyone's precious feelings? Let it roll, I say.

And I'm not advocating a free for all, either. People who like to fight will fight. That's honest. People who like to fellowship will fellowship. That's also honest. Everyone knows what kind they are: fighter or peacemaker. Let's let the fighters take off their gloves and get honest. Let's see who's got the best stuff. I'm sick and tired of this fakey "let's all get along" crap. That ain't respect.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
But we're still on this silly-ass "who's a real Christian" thing, when that has nothing to do with it.

I tell you what should happen. The Muslim mod should do Christianity and the Christian Mod should handle Islam. That would dipense with the agendas, which is what really needs to happen.

Chris
Click to expand...
Excellent idea!
 
Listen, I'll go wherever I need to go here in CR. There are other places, but I like it here because it was the first place I came when I was trying to figure out how to interact with people of differing opinions and beliefs, and I found it welcoming and fruitful. I want to learn. I want to be able to ask a question about my native faith without starting a "brew ha ha".

When someone comes in and starts asking question after question as fast as they can, and then doesn't listen to the answers, and doesn't take any cues from anyone about how to behave, then it is distracting to me. I need to work on that.

I admit that Silas is much friendler the past day or so (Hi Silas, if you are reading). I like Silas, too, God help me. But like I said, he does not speak for every Christian, and he should recognize that this is an interfaith forum--that means it is also multi-denominational. If I am to respect his right to say what he says, then he must come to realize that he needs to be respectful as well. He is not ignorant of how to play nice. So if he won't, then he has made his bed.

Well, I may regret what I said here, but I might not. I guess time will tell.

InPeace,
InLove
 
Re: Christianity Earl Grey

Hi,

Can I post a thought or two? Not as regular in the sub-garden you’re referring to but as a regular generally and one who (generally) finds CR an educational and entertaining place - and with an interest in it staying that way.

A moderator should be like a chairperson, the essential attribute being disinterest (so yes there is no reason why a Muslim cannot moderate the Christianity board; as an idea it is….ideal…as long as they are even handed, apply the CoC and aren’t pushing their own agenda).

As a poster I try to be honest and as respectful as I can be, taking into account the fact that I believe my delusions, opinions and half-baked facts justify what I am saying.

I could, if I didn’t have better things to do, spend my entire life on this forum arguing my POV until I had got you all to agree with me on every little point. But I’d have a long wait wouldn’t I and would just irritate you all (more than normal) along the way. Some people seem to post as if that is their aim; to convert us all to their mind set. Maybe they are just being honest but it strikes me as arrogant and immature.

Also, perhaps it’s the level of “heat” in the language used that is important and is difficult to legislate for and moderate for. Irrespective of the “garden”, what I might find acceptable / unacceptable in response to a post of mine would not be the same for somebody else.

In one way I find it strange there is the Lib board and the Christianity board; this division is not applied to other faiths; but then there are other strange things about how the garden has been sub-divided. (e.g. as mentioned before, Eastern Thought appears patronising or even derogatory). I’m guessing the split in the boards was to try to create some peace? I also think this is a microcosm of the schism that appears to be looming for a major portion of the Christian church worldwide in the not too distant future.

I’ve also seen a suggestion of a “flame pit” sub forum for when a thread gets too heated. My experience of this (admittedly in an un-moderated forum) is that ultimately it is not beneficial. That particular thread may be taken to a flame pit but the minds of the people involved become affected by the flaming and this in turn affects what they post elsewhere in the future.

s.
 
Re: Christianity Earl Grey

Snoopy said:
Hi,
I’ve also seen a suggestion of a “flame pit” sub forum for when a thread gets too heated. My experience of this (admittedly in an un-moderated forum) is that ultimately it is not beneficial. That particular thread may be taken to a flame pit but the minds of the people involved become affected by the flaming and this in turn affects what they post elsewhere in the future.

s.
Click to expand...
The proper use of a "flame pit" is where you go to practice "liberation through mutual exorcism," imo. It is also known as "purification through fire."

Exorcisms can be ugly, but they can also be beneficial. It takes a strong person to recognize and relish this, and not everyone can handle it. Playing with fire can be dangerous, and one must recognize this. Having a designated area for this practice makes great sense, in order to keep any out-of control flames contained, so it won't spread to other areas. This safety feature must also be acknowledged and respected by those who participate in "liberation through mutual exorcism."
Snoopy said:
n one way I find it strange there is the Lib board and the Christianity board; this division is not applied to other faiths; but then there are other strange things about how the garden has been sub-divided. (e.g. as mentioned before, Eastern Thought appears patronising or even derogatory). I’m guessing the split in the boards was to try to create some peace? I also think this is a microcosm of the schism that appears to be looming for a major portion of the Christian church worldwide in the not too distant future.
Click to expand...
This was likely a result of those wishing to subconsciously practice "liberation through mutual exorcism," imo. It made for an unsafe environment for the less strong. The walled garden approach is supposed to serve as a safeguard against this sort of thing. The problem is, there is no walled garden for "liberation through mutual exorcism."
 
Re: Christianity Darjeeling

Hi,

Yes a physical fire can be contained, but the affect of forum flaming tends, it seems to me, to spread beyond the flame pit, being carried in the minds of those who posted there to resurface in the future in other posts and threads. (But I know you're a bit of an affecianado!)

s.

(A Level Niner, too!:) )
 
Re: Christianity Earl Grey

Snoopy said:
Hi sg!

Did you mean "safe"? Or am I misunderstanding?

s.
Click to expand...
I did mean "unsafe." There was no place available for trial by fire, so it was practiced in the supposedly "safe" walled gardens, which made that walled garden "unsafe" for the weaker ones, totally defeating the purpose of the walled garden approach in the first place.
Snoopy said:
Yes a physical fire can be contained, but the affect of forum flaming tends, it seems to me, to spread beyond the flame pit, being carried in the minds of those who posted there to resurface in the future in other posts and threads. (But I know you're a bit of an affecianado!)
Click to expand...
This is where self-control comes into play. Those who do not exhibit sufficient self control can be directed by the moderators to the appropriate place, provided that the appropriate place exists. A "heretic lounge" might be an appropriate place. :)
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
This is in regards to the recent turmoil on Christianity:

First, I've never seen such a bunch of whiners. You all seem to think that somehow, some way, there's a magic formula for making everyone happy. The way I see it, what we had was a refreshing outbreak of honesty. The best we can hope for is an equalibrium of contention, where all forces are somewhat evenly matched. Kinda like a tug-of-war that can't be won.

Silas is the best thing that's happened to this forum since I've been here. He represents a genuine point of view which is authentically Christian. And everyone wants to shut him up. My God, what would happen if we all just said what we really think like Silas? Why, then there's no way we could keep up this false veneer of psuedo- "respect".

You can't legislate "respect." It has to be earned. And you'll never be able to find a definition of "Christianity" that makes everyone happy. So why not just make it about stopping personal attacks and let everything else go? A personal attack is a clear-cut thing. "Respect" is amorphous. Christianity is a huge, diverse stew of things. It's ethnic. I have never understood the effort that's been pored into isolating just what "pure Christianity" is. It's elitist and silly. Anything which lightly touches on anything having to do with Christianity is germain to the discussion. Why all the effort to compartmentalize? Why "Christianity" and "Liberal Christianity"? Why the need to placate the bigotry of some at the expense of others?

I said a long time ago that the solution was to have a "Christianity Fellowship", and a "Christianity for Debate" forum. But nobody flippin' listens around here.

Chris
Click to expand...
Hey, Chris, could we use your condo in the City of Dis on the Lake of Fire as a "Heretics' Lounge?" The place might get trashed, but cleanup would be a snap is you have an elevator that goes down into the Lake of Fire, and just burn all of the trash away.
 
Re: Christianity Earl Grey

Snoopy said:
Hi,

I could be the barista.:p

Thanks for the clarification.

s.
Click to expand...
Are you volunteering for a bodhisattva assignment? :p

Hey, there are traditions that "heretics go to hell, to be consumed by fire." This would suggest that there is a separate area set aside for such activity, to avoid the fire being spread to other areas.

Would you, as the barista/bodhisattva, be serving up the flames, or would you be providing color commentary, administering first aid as needed, or all of the above?
 
Re: Christianity Earl Grey

seattlegal said:
Are you volunteering for a bodhisattva assignment? :p
Would you, as the barista/bodhisattva, be serving up the flames, or would you be providing color commentary, administering first aid as needed, or all of the above?
Click to expand...

Well, as a bodhisattva (love the Steely Dan song) I would of course be primarily concerned with helping others in whatever way was needed. But commentary could be fun too and I wouldn't want to neglect my duties of serving up the perfect espresso if only to take people's minds off the eternal flames of damnation (which I think are provided by the manager :eek: )

s.

PS this may be a little off topic....
.....sorry....
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
This is in regards to the recent turmoil on Christianity:

First, I've never seen such a bunch of whiners. You all seem to think that somehow, some way, there's a magic formula for making everyone happy. The way I see it, what we had was a refreshing outbreak of honesty. The best we can hope for is an equalibrium of contention, where all forces are somewhat evenly matched. Kinda like a tug-of-war that can't be won.

Silas is the best thing that's happened to this forum since I've been here. He represents a genuine point of view which is authentically Christian. And everyone wants to shut him up. My God, what would happen if we all just said what we really think like Silas? Why, then there's no way we could keep up this false veneer of psuedo- "respect".

You can't legislate "respect." It has to be earned. And you'll never be able to find a definition of "Christianity" that makes everyone happy. So why not just make it about stopping personal attacks and let everything else go? A personal attack is a clear-cut thing. "Respect" is amorphous. Christianity is a huge, diverse stew of things. It's ethnic. I have never understood the effort that's been pored into isolating just what "pure Christianity" is. It's elitist and silly. Anything which lightly touches on anything having to do with Christianity is germain to the discussion. Why all the effort to compartmentalize? Why "Christianity" and "Liberal Christianity"? Why the need to placate the bigotry of some at the expense of others?

I said a long time ago that the solution was to have a "Christianity Fellowship", and a "Christianity for Debate" forum. But nobody flippin' listens around here.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris, I agree with pretty much all you've said above. A couple of things I would add (coming from luna as a member only).

First, I agree that the problem lies mainly in the personal attacks and we have not done a good enough job moderating that. However, it is a personal attack when a member targets one or a few people for conversion and also when they tell people directly that they are 'not a Christian.' It's the same thing as telling them "go to hell." Sure, you can say all you want what you think the criteria are for being saved if that's your bag, but it is personal when you ask someone why they are not saved. That is an important distinction.

Second, I agree that the lib board is more confusing and is not working either as a place to discuss things without attack from a strongly differing POV nor as an organizing tool. Likewise, we have done a very poor job lately keeping threads on topic and redirecting certain posts and threads to more appropriate forums. For example, we've had several posts that try to redirect varous conversations in the Christianity forum to teaching about other religions. Many of those conversations should take place on the Comparative Studies Board

I like the idea of fellowship and debate subforums, or perhaps just starting the practice of identifying which kind of thread it is when it is opened. This probably won't solve the problem, but the lib forum does not work.

luna
 
lunamoth said:
Chris, I agree with pretty much all you've said above. A couple of things I would add (coming from luna as a member only).

First, I agree that the problem lies mainly in the personal attacks and we have not done a good enough job moderating that. However, it is a personal attack when a member targets one or a few people for conversion and also when they tell people directly that they are 'not a Christian.' It's the same thing as telling them "go to hell." Sure, you can say all you want what you think the criteria are for being saved if that's your bag, but it is personal when you ask someone why they are not saved. That is an important distinction.

Second, I agree that the lib board is more confusing and is not working either as a place to discuss things without attack from a strongly differing POV nor as an organizing tool. Likewise, we have done a very poor job lately keeping threads on topic and redirecting certain posts and threads to more appropriate forums. For example, we've had several posts that try to redirect varous conversations in the Christianity forum to teaching about other religions. Many of those conversations should take place on the Comparative Studies Board

I like the idea of fellowship and debate subforums, or perhaps just starting the practice of identifying which kind of thread it is when it is opened. This probably won't solve the problem, but the lib forum does not work.

luna
Click to expand...
Gee, Luna, I didn't know folks thought that the liberal Christianity fourm "wasn't working" for them-due apparently to references to other religious concepts occasionally being introduced there(?) For what it's worth, just wanted to mention there is a forum I check occasionally dedicated to only liberal, ("progressive") Christianity and posters there typically like to discuss how traditional Christian concepts might overlap with or even be reinterpretted through views from other traditions. In fact, there are folks who might consider themselves "liberal Christians" who have an interest in what is termed esoteric Christianity, (though I know we have a separate "Hell" for those people here;):D ), and it seems what few books I've read on that subject invariably are comparative discussions that don't necessarily stay in the bounds of the "garden." Heck take Jim Marion's book, "Putting on the Mind of Christ," (he's a self-avowed Christian mystic)-tries to understand what he still terms his Christian experiences but often turns to the contemplative insights of other traditions to do so since he couldn't fit them into a more traditional Christian framework. But I don't have any organizational answers, (did recently make the comment that I don't see literalists & non-literalists of any religion finding enough common ground to remotely understand one another). But playing nice with each other is the biggest starting point.:) earl
 
earl said:
Gee, Luna, I didn't know folks thought that the liberal Christianity fourm "wasn't working" for them-due apparently to references to other religious concepts occasionally being introduced there(?) For what it's worth, just wanted to mention there is a forum I check occasionally dedicated to only liberal, ("progressive") Christianity and posters there typically like to discuss how traditional Christian concepts might overlap with or even be reinterpretted through views from other traditions. In fact, there are folks who might consider themselves "liberal Christians" who have an interest in what is termed esoteric Christianity, (though I know we have a separate "Hell" for those people here;):D ), and it seems what few books I've read on that subject invariably are comparative discussions that don't necessarily stay in the bounds of the "garden." Heck take Jim Marion's book, "Putting on the Mind of Christ," (he's a self-avowed Christian mystic)-tries to understand what he still terms his Christian experiences but often turns to the contemplative insights of other traditions to do so since he couldn't fit them into a more traditional Christian framework. But I don't have any organizational answers, (did recently make the comment that I don't see literalists & non-literalists of any religion finding enough common ground to remotely understand one another). But playing nice with each other is the biggest starting point.:) earl
Click to expand...


Seems that I can't say one single thing here without drawing fire from someone. Well earl, I agree that there needs to be a board for the discussions you refer to, but calling it Liberal Christianity and putting it outside the Abrahamic board is confusing. You can see how Silas decided it was a barrel full of fish for him to come preach to.

Frankly it has never made sense to me.

Have a good one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top