do muslims feel deep down that they are right?

shadowman said:
Im sure I would be mopved by the spirit of the quran if I read more of it. I just was taken aback when I thought I was reading the bible, and I got that whole "reading sacred words feeling" that Ive been conditioned too associate with the bible and jesus....


I dont know a lot about islam but I like what I know about the NOI and the nation of gods and earths (5 percenters) and the moorish science temple
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Brother, what you experienced when you read the Quran was that, the Quran could indeed be from God, as the words of the Quran did resound with your soul as that being from God Allmighty.

So, do you now not think that it will be wise to actually read a lot more of the Quran and see if it all resounds with your soul, intellect, and heart as being the Truthfull final revelation from God, may he be exalted?

Salaam :)
 
wil said:
Is that true? I mean I don't know, I have heard it is more political than religious (even though the political boudaries closely follow the religious ones). Are you indicating that Sadam and the Bathists had no issues controlling the factions that are fighting now?
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The civil war that is going on now in Iraq is political and religious at the same time, but not ofcourse religious when it comes to killing of civillians on iether side, for Islam totally forbids the killing of civillians.

To base our conclusions about this war, on supposition [that if the bathists did not strictly prevent the Sunni's and Shi'as from fighting, then civil war would have broken out], will be innapropriatre, as just supposing is not substantial evidence. Waht we know for sure is that, the Americans went in there to impose a puppet government, and some Shia and Sunni puppets complied...the insurgents rose up to kick out American imperialism thus they are fighting the Americans and those who millitarily support them, wether they may be Shia OR SUNNI [the insurgents are targetting even Sunni's that are collabarating with the Americans, so that goes to show that, for the insurgents, it's a matter of, "fight the Coalition forces and anyone who millitarily/politically/logistically collabarates with them, and it's not a matter of, fight the shia's], and that is what we have to go by.

Since the American 'democratic model' is based on, "which ever party gets the most votes", then it was inevitable that the puppet government will be a dominantly shia one, with a few Sunni's, Kurds, etc, chucked in to make it seem like a 'comprehensively representative government'.

It may have been that some rogue elements of the shia's, that became the dominant politically backed power, started to carry out murderous and torturous attacks on some Sunni civillians, possibly out of spite that the insurgents that were attacking the Americans and the collabarating forces of the puppet government were Sunni's, and this lead to reprisal attacks from Sunni insurgents [mostly the Al-Qaida in Iraq group] on shia civillians, and this lead to a tit for tat cycle of violence on Sunni and Shia civillians.

wil said:
Don't get me wrong...I am not a supporter of the US in Iraq any way shape or form...but what did the US do to cause a rift between the two, one that you indicate didn't exist...and is now bad enough to slaughter over?
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The actions which the Americans took, as described above, precipitated the civil war. If the Americans had left Iraq alone, then any of this wouldn't have happened.

wil said:
I know there are land issues and oil issues, revenue between areas...I thought that was it at first...
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All of that is part of the motivation of some insurgent groups.

Peace.
 
Namaste Abdulla,

Thank you for your responce. If I may more questions.

Now I realize the whole empire was divided by an arbitrary drawing of lines in the sand which seperated tribes and sects and confounded the issue...and now we've gone in and eliminated Sadam and his party/regime...blame can easily and deservedly be laid there...but...

What form of Gov't do the Iraqi's prefer? Are you saying they can't create a representative gov't amongst themselves?

Is a Sadam like dictatorship (somebody's puppet) preferred over personal representation?

I can understand the Iraqi's wanting the US out. And there is one thing that would get them to leave tomorrow. End of violence and self rule.

Do you follow, the US public wants this to end. Congress and the administration is under extreme pressure to pullout and leave. But we also are fully aware of the mess that we've caused and wish to leave it right.

If good Muslims could stand up, if the Iraqi's of all religions, tribes and territories could put down arms, hold hands, pray together, unite and pick up shovels and tools and rebuild and say get out of our country and let us rebuild.... instantly pressure from the citizenry of the US and world would demand that the US pullout completely....and they'd have no choice.

But if suicide bombings, beheadings, destruction of public and private property continues....right or wrong the US forces will be there.

I personally have no control over this situation and cannot do anymore than continue to put on pressure...

A grass roots coalition of good Muslims could make all the difference in the world...Imam's from all sides standing up and condemning violence could end this tomorrow.

all my opinion of course...yet another white guy from the west who thinks he knows everything yet in reality knows very little, yet is willing to muddle in others affairs.
 
17th Angel said:
*coughs* NORTHERN IRELAND *coughs*

In my work, I've seen how you christians treat each other... :)
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I am well aware that of the history of Christianity is not without it's sore spots between certain denominations. If my comments to Abdullah seemed hypocritical, they weren't meant to be. The situation in Northern Island is as much political as it is religious, as is the current situation in Iraq. But while Adullah thinks that the religious component isn't between Sunni's and Shiites are not based in dogma, but in afflilation with "the enemy", namely the US, it doesn't negate the fact that the Shia-Sunni has been a contradiction of this religion of "peace", as it is promoted, for 1400 years. And in the article Muslimwoman points out, the feud between Sunni and Shiites has a longer history than the Catholic/Protestant conflict:

"It is the Shia-Sunni conflict. Measured in terms of historical longevity, it beats the Catholic-Protestant schism by a factor of three and the Palestinian conflict by a factor of more than twenty."

So when Adullah stated:

"We can intellectually see that Islam is the truth, because there are no contradictions in our religion."

I wondered what truth we can extract from the Sunni-Shia war. Why can't they put the past behind and come to peaceful terms.

But if you want to talk about contradictions in the Qu'ran and the Hadith, there are sources for that as well. But that's a different thread.
 
Just putting it out there, sure it didn't slip your mind... Just making sure it is fair... I see christians fighting each other each freaking day, they are not any better than Islam.... Sorry, just the way you said it like christianity is goody good two shoes... Many other historical events that put a dark side on your religion too... :) If you wanted to go into them?
 
17th Angel said:
Just putting it out there, sure it didn't slip your mind... Just making sure it is fair... I see christians fighting each other each freaking day, they are not any better than Islam.... Sorry, just the way you said it like christianity is goody good two shoes... Many other historical events that put a dark side on your religion too... :) If you wanted to go into them?
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What part of this didn't you understand?

Dondi said:
I am well aware that of the history of Christianity is not without it's sore spots between certain denominations.
In fact, I'll name some of them for you:

The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
Witch hunts
Anti-Semitism
Heath and Weath Gospel preachers

I'm sure there are more, but we get each other here. You right, the behavior in these cases is no better than extremist Islam today. I never meant to come off that way. I'm agreeing with you. But like I said, this started out of Adullahs post that Islam does not have contradictions. Would you agree with that statement?
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Can't everyone realize that they intellectually and emotionally see, understand and believe their religion is true and correct?

Each of us believes that else why would we be there, why would we be arguing.

So unless any of us are ready to give up our notions of what is right and true...intellectually and emotionally...how can we expect others?

Not to say one may not change religion or belief systems...but when will that happen...when one no longer believes what one currently believes and begin believing the next!

And then low and behold..they are arguing from the other side of the table!!

Which is not that extraordinary when you think of it....the extraordinary part is they are still arguing and still don't get it!!

This applies to everyone that moves from one system to the other, non believer to believer, or believer to athiest...they still argue!!

Just love each other for where they are....as you may be there tomorrow...or must remember where you were yesterday.

please note these are not necesarily the opinions of this forum or the moderators...just this poster....
 
wil said:
Can't everyone realize that they intellectually and emotionally see, understand and believe their religion is true and correct?

Each of us believes that else why would we be there, why would we be arguing.

So unless any of us are ready to give up our notions of what is right and true...intellectually and emotionally...how can we expect others?

Not to say one may not change religion or belief systems...but when will that happen...when one no longer believes what one currently believes and begin believing the next!

And then low and behold..they are arguing from the other side of the table!!

Which is not that extraordinary when you think of it....the extraordinary part is they are still arguing and still don't get it!!

This applies to everyone that moves from one system to the other, non believer to believer, or believer to athiest...they still argue!!

Just love each other for where they are....as you may be there tomorrow...or must remember where you were yesterday.

please note these are not necesarily the opinions of this forum or the moderators...just this poster....
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Bravo and well said Wil.:D

Those of you that read a lot of my posts have probably realised by now that history is a big thing with me. I don't want to bore you to tears with reams of dates and details of conflicts between sects of religions, so may I just generalise.

The history of religious conflict is rarely anything to do with G-d or a differing belief in how we received the word of G-d, it is largely to do with the quest for power (land, power over people, money). Think about history, all countries began with feudal systems, tribes survived and grew through conquest of other tribes. It was very difficult (and expensive) to raise an army but if you convince people to go to war for G-d you have an instant army, prepared to fight and die for a cause.

Any follower, from any of the Abrahamic religions, that suggests otherwise needs to stick their head into a few history books. This can also be turned around, the persecuted religious followers are also persecuted because leaders do not want that particular religion to flourish and seize power (an example, look to the attrocities committed against the Jewish faith).

Until the sin of greed is eliminated from mens hearts, conflict in the name of religion will continue. G-d and the Prophets (pbut) must weep for the shame of mans actions commited in the name of G-d.

The problem with Iraq is that no strong leader has come forward that is prepared/capable of uniting the sects. This would take a moderate Muslim (as he would have to accept the different sects views or one sect would feel marginalised) and a moderate Muslim cleric is highly unlikely to be able to get the sects to listen and follow him amidst the current cycle of violence. When one does come forward he will have to deal with the new found hatred among the sects, this will not be an easy task for anyone as Arabs have a rare ability to hold a grudge. The west has a lot to answer for over this one.

Salaam
 
shadowman said:
is there an equivalent to the christian holy spirit?

a spirit of truth love or comfort?

truth especially


you know one time I Was reading the qoran and I was moved in the same way I was moved when reading the bible.

see I thought the passage was from the bible.... it was on an internet website.


as soon as I realized it was from the quran I couldnt get the same feeling of reading blessed or holy words

in conclusion we are all brainwashed!
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;)
must watch videos:
A closer look at The Quran

YouTube - A closer look at The Quran

The Basis for Muslim Belief

YouTube - The Basis for Muslim Belief


=========================================
Asalaamulikum

I would like to say, brainwashed lol! :D correct word :confused:
Some people might say what or why??!!!! :eek:
It's more of like a programing or inserting data into our mind, if you
want to get computerized like terms :)
ok enough, joking ok, The Qu'ran does say that the Bible (Engill)
what jesus aka Isha (peace be upon him) is also considered as the teachings. same as the Torah! But, the Qu'ran does even mention that their teachings on their books have been changed by others, which is true.
Also, the Qu'ran only said the Gospels of Jesus is considered the main part of what we muslims belive is the Engill (Holy Bible).


Another thing alot of people like to think, that the qu'ran does change??
like the other books. first of all, I can clearly say no. No one in the history of earth even came close to creating a book such as the Qu'ran and it is even a challange to the none-belivers, to even come up with a chapters found in the Qu'ran. Allah {STW} even than adds, if they can't make a chapter than make a singel verse that can compare to the qu'ran.
Also, I know lil kids that are only like 7, 8, 10 year olds that memorises the quran by heart :eek: and also here's the part you want to pay attention, when they read it infront of a sheik or imam, when they make a mistake they are corrected and are told to go back and read the whole chapter again and come back to recite it again when they are ready. lol! I had to do that soo much and I still can't remember a large chapter, even today, I can only remember the small ones :D.

The last and most important, why can't we change the Qu'ran,
well, their will be no balance in the meaning, words or even the poetry?
people who don't speak arabic don't realize that the Qu'ran is poetic in sound and words, and is even classified as it's own style of Arabic language. :eek: Plus if we were to add anything or take out anything, it is no longer the word of God aka Allah {STW}, no than it is words of man. Plus I don't know anyone who wants to be punished in the day of resaraections and judgement and in the hell fire.

Salaamulikum
 
shadowman said:
is there an equivalent to the christian holy spirit?
a spirit of truth love or comfort?
truth especially
you know one time I Was reading the qoran and I was moved in the same way I was moved when reading the bible.
see I thought the passage was from the bible.... it was on an internet website.
as soon as I realized it was from the quran I couldnt get the same feeling of reading blessed or holy words
in conclusion we are all brainwashed!
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Hi
This proves that all revealed religions in their origins were from GodAllahYHWH, that is why you enjoyed from the verse of Quran. I have read Bible, in origin it was ok, only when some mythical beliefs were taken into it at certain points of history that it became invalid. I enjoy reading any book of any revealed religion, like you enjoy seeing any archaeological sites anywhere in the world. The rest could be the effect of brain washing, this factor could be resisted to.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi - a peaceful faith in Islam
 
Hello/Salaam

Shadowwoman: I am glad that you are talking about your experience. It is a positive sign. You are able to recognize that there is something wrong in your view of other's Holy Book even if it has something beautiful to say.
I hope that you will continue to try to resolve this with yourself. You can still remain to be who you are, of the same faith, and yet read other Holy Scriptures.

I am a Muslim and never in my life have I heard an imam tell me that I should be only reading the Holy Qur'an. In fact, knowledge and education are encouraged in my faith and I am free to explore and read as much as I want. This tells me that The God (Allah) in Whom I believe has nothing to hide from me if He actually wants me to read as much as I need to to have things be clarified to me. The more I read books/writings from other religions, the more my belief in the Truth of Qur'an's Message grows.

I know that every religious leader wants the adherenets to their faiths to stay in their own circles, but most of what I heard from other Christians is that the priests tell them to accept the Bible as the only Truth and the final truth. Many Christians, I find, are afraid to consider truths from other Books simply because they are afraid of blasphemy. I think if anything considering a truth of another Holy Book might either have you find similarities, extension of knowledge or simply confirmation of your belief.

The Holy Qur'an is, in Islam, said to be the Final Testament. Islam accept and teaches the Old Testament and the New Testament to be Holy Books from The Same God. In regards to Christians and Muslims, the major difference is in accepting Jesus either as the Messiah Prophet (Muslim belief) or the Messiah the Son (Christian view).

The Holy Qur'an has many things to say in regards to life in general. Translations of the meaning of the Holy Qur'an vary at times, but the arabic version continues to stay the same.
The Qur'an is not a story book, but rather every verse was given for a specific reason. That is why The Message took over 10 years to be delievered to the fullest.

I hope that you will try to read some more of the Qur'an. There is chapter called Mariam, after Jesus pbuh mother--the only woman in the Holy Qur'an who was mentioned by name (after mother Eve).
 
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