What/how do you compare?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Parsha Project' started by marb, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. marb

    marb New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm interested in your work- it's a website of Comparative religions and i would like to hear about your methods how do you compare them?

    - How did you start, what was/is your basis?
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Namaste Marb,

    We wax philosophic on our beliefs and ideas regarding current events and topics that matter to us.

    We discuss our similarities and differences....

    Welcome aboard click on a few links that interest you and we'll compare your thoughts, concepts, beliefs and ideas to ours!
     
  3. marb

    marb New Member

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    If this is a place for comparing religions, i hope here are some experts.

    Can you tell me, please- is data in video correct- it has to do with facts (with text- something that is written; black on white)- the question is only- IS IT TRUE, CORRECT.

    Really looking forward for your comments!
    Regards

    video url:
    ttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234&q=the%2Bnaked%2Btruth&hl=en
     
  4. marb

    marb New Member

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    I make some notes from the video, also add a time (min, s) when it is taken. Hope it's enough to see, what is it about.

    28.19 : All that we find in judaizm and christianity, there is virtualy not one concept, belief or idea expressed - in judaizm or christianity - not one - that can not be traced back many many times to many different religions - it's a very old ancient story - it's the greatest story ever told.

    43.45: amon-ra /horus (pharaoh) - christ - krishna - budha -
    and all of the other 16 saviours (46.27) (comparison between them)

    47.40: We are not dealing with myths, we are not dealing with belief systems, we are not dealing with faith, we are dealing with facts. Historical data, it's there, you can't set that aside; jesus had the same kind of life, did the same kind of things as krishna and budha, and there they were - all 16 of these man - coincidence?

    And then it goes to astrotheology.
     
  5. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, marb, and welcome to CR!
    Didn't see the video, but I am thinking I probably don't need to to get the gist as I have encountered this stuff before.

    It is easy to want to take the patriotic "rah-rah" view and place the emphasis on the point about greatest story ever told, seeing as I am a Christian, but I think that would confuse the subject. It is self-evident that Christianity grew out of Judaism, Jesus was a Jew, so that is really not worth refuting. There are those however that would take issue with Judaism grew out of some other cultural tradition, Zoroastrianism or Mithraism for example, or possibly even Pharonic occultism. Bananabrain can shed far better light on this than I ever could, but at best what your film suggests is problematic.

    This is not the first time a comparison has been presented. The B'hai Faith, Theosophy, and even atheists have been known to draw connections. Some of those connections I feel are pretty tenuous and stretched, but hey, everybody is trying to find support for their personal conclusions.

    Oh, but we are dealing with myths, we are dealing with belief systems and we are dealing with faiths, that is the fact. While there may or may not be significant similarities between various prophets (for lack of a more inclusive term), there are also significant differences. Each is called and appropriate to their personal place and time, to a specific culture, and around whom are built specific mythos. It is difficult to say one is dealing with historical data concerning Jesus for example...as Christian scholars will be happy to oblige in support...there is so very little outside of the Biblical text and mythos available to history. The Christian Jesus is evident, the secular Jesus is almost non-existant. Can't say much about the other 15, I haven't spent a great deal of effort in this direction, but people being people I would suspect the story is very similar regarding these others as well. In other words there is probably a very well defined religious mythos history of each of these "saviours" you allude to, but I suspect there is very little secular historical support to serve as a second witness confirmation. Without that confirmation, one can hardly call it fact, it is religious mythos.

    That is not to imply that Jesus and these other men did not exist, in all likelihood they did. But the mythos surrounding them quite likely got bigger and bigger as the tale was retold and retold until the stories were finally set in writing.

    I'm sorry, I'm trying to keep a straight face when seeing astrotheology in the same context with "facts," "history" and comparative religion.

    I see you asked earlier about how one goes about comparing religions. I suppose there are as many ways as there are people who look. When considering other people's studies on the matter, I find myself seeking out their motivations for conducting the study...are they in it for profit?, are they in it for converts?, are they in it for some purpose of condensing all into one?, are they in it jsut to better try to understand and appreciate their brothers and sisters around the world?

    There are a lot of nefarious (ab)uses applied to comparitive studies, just as there are a lot of noble uses applied to comparative studies. That is one crucial point I always keep close at hand when considering other people's studies on this subject.
     
  6. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    Hi Marb

    Thought you may find these interesting, they are from the Quran:
    "And for every nation there is a messenger." (10:47)

    "And there is not a people but a warner has gone among them." (35:24)

    Muslims believe in all the Prophets (pbut) and we make no distinction between them. We are taught that every nation of the world was given Prophets, therefore we believe there were many more than 16 (and I mean MANY more). Some Islamic traditions place the number at around 124,000. We are also taught that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was the final Prophet (ie no new religions would be sent by G-d after Islam).

    Also, I live in Egypt so I have to deal with the issue of Akhenaten's monotheism and there are differences as well as similarities between this and the Abrahamic religions. For example, Akhenaten claimed to be the son of G-d but he also stated the other gods were no longer 'effective', hence the belief in a single G-d. He never tried converting the people until he found it necessary for political reasons.

    Salaam
     
  7. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    Sorry I stopped watching at 5:19 when the man, in the shirt that's too small for him, said the Crusades were started to find the Holy Grail - he clearly failed to ever read a history book and is obviously a fan of Monty Python (in case you don't know the Crusades were started by Pope Urban, in order to rescue the Holy Land from the Turks). Sorry but I can't take anyone seriously that can't be bothered to research their subject.

    Salaam
     
  8. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    Sorry it won't let me edit the above post. I meant I couldn't take the chap in the video seriously, not you.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I think it is a valuable video for all to watch...

    It makes some points, uses some info out of context and pushes the envelope.

    Where did you stand on this prior to viewing and what was its affect on you?

    I believe these folks believe what they say to be true. The question is are they the experts you are looking for? You surely know they have an agenda as well...
     
  10. marb

    marb New Member

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    What do you mean by that?
    ___________________________

    There is a comparison made- they use some egyptian texts, christian bible, they also have a text about krishna and budha.

    I'm interested- what books exactly do they use?
    Is it true, what they say- and maybe, if you are familiar with this topic- what "the other side" says about their "research".
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Do I think the bible contains mythology, astrology, metaphor, analogy, parables and data from other religions? Yes.

    Do I believe biblical stories were sensationalized in their oral traditions prior to being written down? Yes.

    Does that affect my utilizing principles found in it? No.

    Their combination of ancient words and thought and combining them with Ark of Noah from arghan noa or Genesis from Gen Isis is disingenuous. They speak of utilizing the ancient texts yet Genesis doesn't come from the Hebrew and isn't the name of the first book of the Hebrew bible.

    If all their points were valid they wouldn't have to stretch and distort so much.

    Their 16 people did not all have the traits they said...born of virgin, argued religion at 12, died on the cross at 33....there were similarities, the question is why can't the Naked Truth stick to the truth? If their truth is so powerful why do THEY have to sensationalize it.

    Their book references are contained in the book...I don't have access to the original texts that they utilize though...and am no expert.
     
  12. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Well I tried to watch it 3 times now....got further into it with each successive attempt,,,,but.
    What a crock of regurgitated bull doo doo.
    Got no more to say on it.
     
  13. marb

    marb New Member

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    -Like Jesus, Horus was born to a virgin, Isis-Meri, on December 25 in a cave or a manger.
    -Like Jesus, Horus' birth was announced by a star in the east and he was allegedly attended by three wise men.
    -Before his death, Horus had 12 disciples..
    -To begin with, Mithra was born of a virgin in a cave on December 25.
    -[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Their histories are strangely similar; too much so not to have been derived from a common source. Let us take as a type that of Chrishna. [“Three hundred and Forty-six Striking Analogies Between Christ and Chrishna,” Loc. Cit.] It is said of him that his birth was foretold; that he was an incarnate God; his mother a virgin; that he had an adopted father who was a carpenter; that there was rejoicing on earth and in heaven at his birth; that his mother's name was Maia: He was born in an obscure situation on December 25th; was visited by wise men and shepherds who were led by a star; was warned by an angel of danger; that all children were ordered to be destroyed in order to include him; that his parents fled to Mathura. He had a forerunner [Bali-Rama]; was wise in childhood; was lost and searched for by his parents; had other brothers; retired to solitude; fasted; preached a noteworthy sermon; was entitled a Saviour, Redeemer, Shepherd, Lion of the tribe of Sakia; existed prior to birth; and on earth and in heaven at the same time; was both human and divine; did miracles, of which one of the first was to cure a leper; [Page 17] healed, all manner of diseases; raised the dead; read thoughts; detected and ejected devils; had apostles; reformed the existing religion; abolished law of lineal descent in priesthood; was poor; was conspired against; denounced riches; meek; unmarried and chaste; merciful; associated with sinners and was rebuked for it; befriended a widow; met a gentle woman at a well; submitted to injuries and insults; was a practical philanthropist; had a last supper; was crucified between two thieves; darkness supervened; descended to hell; was resurrected after three days and seen by many people. Again, of Quexalcote, [Mexican Antiquities, Vol VI Codex Borgianus. Codex Vaticanus] the Mexican Saviour, we are told, and mostly on good Christian authority, that he was born 300 years before Christ; of a spotless virgin; that he lived a life of humility and piety; retired to a wilderness and fasted forty days; was worshipped; crucified between two thieves; descended to hell and rose again the third day; rode on an ass; forgave sin, etc.
    (from www)

    ??[/FONT]
     
  14. Caimanson

    Caimanson Mind or spirit?

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    I agree with Wil's assesment.
    Their research is not very thorough, and the message is delivered with the same propaganda techniques that religious people use. Their points where too sweeping, and left no room for other aspects of the bible.

    Got the impression that when they where comparing jesus, to krishna, buddha, etc, they were really pushing the envelope (though one can always cite the collective unconcious and the universal archetypes to support this point of view).

    They do seem to have some good points regarding astrological concepts and myths from occult religions being encoded in the bible.
    For example the story of moses and its pagan origins/parallels, though it has to be confirmed.

    They clearly have an agenda of converting people out of christianity/judaism.
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    The astrology issue is fun...now not to say I don't feel their exists plenty of astrology links to the bible...these guys dive out on a limb.

    They reverse the order of the lines of scripture in order to prove their point...(all I could think of is "Paul is dead..")


    But their point revolves around the line about changing the seasons with Orion or the Pliedes....well let us realize...without television, radio, rodeo and circus...our ancestors were intimately familiar with the stars and their rotation in the sky and identifying seasons based on celestial patterns. What the biblical story intimates is that G-d put the system forth that alowed the connection (earth rotation around the sun, tilt of the axis and all that) and the scripture asks if you can make Orion rise when you choose it to? In the video they completely reverse it, and do it quite well, if you don't actually stop and open your bible it is easy to be swayed.

    I think it is worthwhile for anyone to watch....it does make some great points...just not all the ones it wants and doesn't receive the intended result from me...
     
  16. Caimanson

    Caimanson Mind or spirit?

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    The best one was when they twisted Mark 14:13. That following the man with a jar of water, was an encoded message meaning that the age of aquarius was coming......

    Not an impossible interpretation, but it takes a big leap of faith, unless they provide more evidence for their interpretation.
    Though christians sometimes come up with some inventive interpretations as well.
     
  17. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    I was struck off by the early discussion that because no one has come back from the dead, no one really knows what to expect from the other side, that there is no evidence that there is anything beyond death, and therefore we are simply "wasting our time" trying to prepare for the next life.

    Whether there is an afterlife or not, this "prepareness" in this life have vastly improved circumstances, relationships, and spiritual maturity for many seeking a higher level of life. It is the idea that there is a Higher Power that created us and therefore has a standard of living for us that is important. If we cannot achieve such in this life, then the next life is not going to be better off anyway, is it? So it how could it be wasting time? What else are we supposed to do?
     
  18. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    post 17....

    What are we supposed to do? I could go on and on and ooon, on that subject but, I expect you know along the lines of what I would say...

    You may believe that the "prepration" you do is great and makes your life better, but again, if there is no judge... Who are you to judge what is deemed an acceptable life? I would certainly not agree with that being a good life (for me personally) Weekly spending time to worship something (that in this situation it doesn't exist) I have spent idle time trying to make others be suckered into this scheme.... I have had this massive hope of fluttering off to heaven and that also doesn't come to pass... I would be indeed pissed.... All that work for nothing.. And I never experienced smoking that bong... Getting that tattoo... Having fun with that cheeky cheeky lady... OR whatever lol... I would be upset that I had sampled so little when there was so much to be sampled...

    ( now here is my judgement of a good life which you'd disagree with ;) )
    I want a life where I could look back, when drawing final breath and be pleased with.... I go along the lines of just live life... If there is something after this, then I would expect forgiveness... I was given a life, I used that life to live.... Simple, I do not see fault here... But if some grand inquisitor does... He should of personally made this clear to me, he has failed to do so... So I make no err, to my own personal knowledge that is ;) I see something I have never experienced... Be it condemened by a holy book, pfffft I am still gonna do it... Cause I may never get the chance to ever, ever.... again.
     
  19. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Bravo old chap!! Well said I must say!! Life is indeed for living and those that choose to abstain from the many pleasures may live a purer life, but that purity is only that because it is undiluted with fun and pleasure and wonderful sensory experiences. We are a long time dead!! Fill your life while you have the chance!!
     
  20. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    That is my message I am trying to get across with my previous post yes... lol.

    If I am wrong.... And there is a creator... And he is of love and mercy... He shall forgive me.... Who wouldn't? If I was in that situation hell, I'd understand.. This little human has used the most awesome.... AWESOME gift I could ever give him (life) and just used it to the full he has appreciated my gift.
     

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