Who teaches religious aggrogance?

[Muslimwoman]

Hi All

I would like some views on a couple of questions I have been mulling over (feel sure this has been discussed before but I can't find the threads):

1. Who teaches religious arrogance? By that I mean the "we are right and everyone else is wrong" attitude? Does it originate with G-d requiring one religious belief throughout mankind or the Prophets (pbut) trying to increase the numbers of followers, or the religious leaders that seek power in this lifetime or with followers needing to be right? (before anyone gets offended my question is not designed to 'question' G-d, just our understanding of His requirements).

2. Why do people feel that G-d chose to create many nations, yet believe G-d wants us all to follow the same religion?

3. Do you find that people who "find G-d" on their own are more moderate in their views (ie they have not been influenced by the specific teachings of a church or teacher)?

Look forward to your answers.

Salaam

 

[Postmaster]

You ask some pretty hard questions here, I will leave my take on them.

1. I think those who are religiously arrogant are part of a mechanism for being keepers of certain religious movements that have been intended by God. It's my opinion that eventually there is a breaking point for all religious movements, this is blatantly obvious from opening up a history book. It's true that some very very ancient religions still exist and people practise them but you find there numbers significantly decline over time.

2. Maybe they are keepers of important truths only found in there religion? Maybe they are holding on to a lost cause? Maybe the question itself is a statement? I'm sure there is a whole range of reasons but I can only answer with questions.

3. Nope, sometimes and yes

I think the greatest crime of mankind is religious intolerance, religious arrogance is nothing compared to this.

 

[wil]

1. who teaches it? Parents, Religious leaders, scripture...the list goes on.

2. You didn't know my country was the best too?? (I've really got lost on the whole patriotism thing recently....just cause I was a member of the lucky sperm club I suddenly am required to dance with the rest in the same boat??)

3. Depends on which G-d they found...the one that says you gotta go save the world or the one that says just love and forgive...

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

What good is a religion if it doesn't provide an identity and a superiority complex to go along with it? All religions function as a mechanism of control over the masses. Nationalism is essentially the same thing as religion.

 

[Postmaster]

All religions function as a mechanism of control over the masses. Nationalism is essentially the same thing as religion.

I disagree with this statement. Religions if divine are always intended as a cure for civilisation and the masses. Just because religion crosses paths with politics and nationalism doesn't mean they are the same thing.

 

[17th Angel]

I disagree with this statement. Religions if divine are always intended as a cure for civilisation and the masses. Just because religion crosses paths with politics and nationalism doesn't mean they are the same thing.

Yea, more like eggs and bacon.... Not the same, but don't they go well together

 

[Postmaster]

Yea, more like eggs and bacon.... Not the same, but don't they go well together

Totally agree with that. Not the same but have been complimenting each other. Some people want to take away the bacon and end up taking away the egg too.

 

[Muslimwoman]

You ask some pretty hard questions here, I will leave my take on them.

Thanks for your response Postmaster.

It's true that some very very ancient religions still exist and people practise them but you find there numbers significantly decline over time.

Could you please expand on this for me. In 1400 years Islam has grown from a small tribe of about 70 people to 1.3 billion, which doesn't suggest a decline to me. I believe Christianity has also grown constantly and 2000 years is not an insignificant period of time.

I think the greatest crime of mankind is religious intolerance, religious arrogance is nothing compared to this.

This is where I was going with this, to me it is the arrogance that causes the intolerance. Surely a person that is truly humble cannot be intolerant?

As I said, I am just mulling these over and to be honest, as with your answer to question 2, I just seem to keep coming up with more questions.

Salaam

 

[Prober]

Yea, more like eggs and bacon.... Not the same, but don't they go well together

For the chicken - a commitment, for the pig - a sacrifice.

 

[Muslimwoman]

1. who teaches it? Parents, Religious leaders, scripture...the list goes on.

Hi Wil

But there must be an original source surely? We can trace most religions back, beyond their own conception, to earlier religious beliefs. So, can we trace back to where "we are right and everyone else is wrong" started?

2. You didn't know my country was the best too?? (I've really got lost on the whole patriotism thing recently....just cause I was a member of the lucky sperm club I suddenly am required to dance with the rest in the same boat??)

LOL you really think you were so lucky???? Sorry I was forgetting about the blessed US of A. Is this where we all bow down and say "we're not worthy"?

3. Depends on which G-d they found...the one that says you gotta go save the world or the one that says just love and forgive...

But doesn't G-d say the same thing to everyone and people (being the morons that we are) twist that message to our own desires?

Salaam

 

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Muslimwoman.

1 & 2: Arrogance, intolerance, hypocrisy, fundamentalism... all peas in the Pod of Mans desire to declare himself holier than thou art. Nationalism is a natural bedfellow of such core selfishness. The many branches of the 2 great mono's of Islam and Christianity I think have an inherent flaw within them that makes it very easy for them to be hijacked for narrow selfish purpose. It is the singular divinity. Nothing, anywhere, anytime stands alone. Everything is plural except the concept of God. This is unnatural to us and so we divide it up in whatever ways suit our much smaller individual needs, agendas, prejudices and greeds. The less scrupulous of our leaders, religious or political, are always falling over themselves to harness this predilection to create this "us and them". We always form cliques, teams, groups, parties, nations... it's often how the leaders behave that decide where it goes. Hate is a surprisingly easy thing to foment and its mechanisms are well understood. We cant unite because we dont know how to... its a pathological part of the human condition. And I see no end to it.

3: Individuals that find their own way are not simply followers, not the common flock. I think such people tend to be more moderate if they are content to keep what they have for themselves. But can become extreme if the want to 'share' it.

tuppenceworth

TE

 

[Postmaster]

Thanks for your response Postmaster.

Could you please expand on this for me. In 1400 years Islam has grown from a small tribe of about 70 people to 1.3 billion, which doesn't suggest a decline to me. I believe Christianity has also grown constantly and 2000 years is not an insignificant period of time.

For example Neopaganism, Polytheism and Zoroastrianism were practised by our forefathers but today are not as popular or totally disappeared.

 

[Dondi]

2. You didn't know my country was the best too?? (I've really got lost on the whole patriotism thing recently....just cause I was a member of the lucky sperm club I suddenly am required to dance with the rest in the same boat??)

This is the type of thing that has caused me to look beyond my fundamentalist thinking toward a more tolerant stance. I asked myself, is being in the "Jesus" club the result of my good fortune in being born to Christian parents? My corner of Americana had God, Mom, and apple pie, but until I joined the Navy, I'd never been to a foreign country where people believe and live so differently. Then I began to wonder why I should be so fortunate. Surely, God couldn't love them any less. People are the same wherever you go.

My whole perspective on religion has since changed. It has caused me to look beyond the onion layers of pure dogma and delve into the most basic requirements of God, namely how we are treat each other, which is the core of Christ's teachings.

One liberating passage in the Christian scriptures comes from the Apostle Paul, and I repeat it often:

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" - Acts 17:24-27

This tells me that God is closer to people than I had thought, no matter where or who they are. I'm still a Christian, but I've had to look at those things Jesus taught that appeared to be exclusive in another light, one toward more tolerance. He may be the Way, the Truth, and the Life, but I feel that He may be found not by name only, but by action.

 

[ardenz]

Who teaches religious tolerance?

1. I don't think religious arrogance comes from God or from any prophet who has any real loving message. They (prophets) were a product of their culture. It is how a message or a prophet is interpreted afterwards, in a particular time in history. An example would be how the Romans adapted Christianity to their military model in Roman Catholicism. I grew up in a country that was practically ruled by the Roman Catholic Church, partly to do with forming a postcolonial identity. And In Northern Ireland, unfortunately Religion had got mixed up with national identity, which just adds to religious intolerance.

2. I believe that we are all parts of a greater whole.

3. I think it is important to try to step outside your own culture and religious upbringing to try and get a picture of where others are coming from. Also rather than protesting completely there may in turn be aspects of your own religious tradition that you can value still and hopefully have more understanding.


cheers

 

[Snoopy]

For example Neopaganism, Polytheism and Zoroastrianism were practised by our forefathers but today are not as popular or totally disappeared.

Hinduism (Rig-Veda approx. 1700 - 1100 BCE), Buddhism (The Buddha born approx 560 BCE)…

s.

 

[wil]

LOL you really think you were so lucky???? Sorry I was forgetting about the blessed US of A. Is this where we all bow down and say "we're not worthy"?

I think maybe you've hit something here... And dondi touched on it as well.

Our arrogance comes from lack of knowledge and understanding. I am not well traveled...North America yes, but the world, no. And my exploration into what other religions believe reduced my arrogance. And I'd say if I spent some time living in other countries I'd get an appreciation for them too.

So who teaches this...ignorance possibly?

 

[Postmaster]

Hinduism (Rig-Veda approx. 1700 - 1100 BCE), Buddhism (The Buddha born approx 560 BCE)…

s.

And Buddhism is originally formed from Hinduism and most ancient religions have reformed, split, changed or progressed if not disappeared totally.

 

[Snoopy]

Our arrogance comes from lack of knowledge and understanding. I am not well traveled...North America yes, but the world, no. And my exploration into what other religions believe reduced my arrogance. And I'd say if I spent some time living in other countries I'd get an appreciation for them too.

I do think it strange that the world's wealthiest country (at the moment!) has (apparently) such a relatively low ownership of passports. But then you do have a big country to explore already!

Conversely, foreign travel doesn’t of course automatically lead to consciousness-raising. I feel a lot of British citizens would stay at home for their holidays to get drunk if they could be guaranteed plenty of sunshine. British people going abroad and complaining about the “foreign” people, culture and food is a sad joke, but true in many cases. I also know that people extol the virtues of holidays they have had in (say) Spain or Greece, saying there were English-style pubs, English food, the waiters spoke English…..

s.

 

[Muslimwoman]

Hi All

Dondi, brilliant post and for me you have hit the nail right on the head. I have been so lucky and lived amid a number of cultures. As Snoopy so rightly points out, this was not a beer swilling get a tan holiday but actually living among completely different attitudes and beliefs, you have to open your mind and challenge the things you believe are "right and factual". It was this that formed my "moderate" attitudes of today. I get so frustrated when I see how closed minded the people are around me, because they have no external knowledge or influence to challenge what they have been taught. Perhaps this is what the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) meant when he said we "must search for knowledge, even unto China"?

Salaam

 

[Muslimwoman]

So who teaches this...ignorance possibly?

Hi Wil

Agree completely and I do not mean that in an "ignorant peasants" way. Wow, how on earth do we go about dealing with this problem though?

Salaam