why do you believe what you believe

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by gooduser07, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    No problem. I expanded at length on my thoughts of who and what deity is in a previous post at

    http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/7707-post19.html

    (It's a bit of a slog, I'm afraid........)

    Actually, there I might not entirely agree. It seems to me that certain breakthroughs of a sort have occurred for us during the last 5000 years or so, and it's been the synergy of selfless human beings and deity together that have brought these about. Deity works through us -- as I see it -- and only when we don't respond ........ well ....... "Jesus wept".

    And peace be on you,

    Operacast
     
  2. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    why do you believe what you believe.................... because its the truth
     
  3. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    As a believer myself, I also believe in the experiences and utterances of clearly exceptional humans who have lived their lives solely for others (Buddha, Socrates, Jesus, and so on). Such people have probably experienced the divine in some very direct way that others haven't. So what they say is critical.

    Personally, while I believe in a God, and in what lofty humans like these three have said about God, I have a problem in believing in a Heaven that is waiting for us -- at least, a Heaven as it's been described to us. Why? Because Heaven has been described as a place where one can experience perfect bliss, and that would seem impossible for me, were there a Hell. I would be too conscious in Heaven that certain souls would be undergoing indescribably excruciating torments in Hell with no hope of surcease, and that would spoil my happiness. So Heaven could not be a place of perfect contentment for me.

    Even the most warped of human beings lives out a life inflicting horrible misery and destruction for a period of a hundred years or so, maximum. The results of that misery may play out until everyone affected is also gone, which would mean a hundred years in addition at the most. Thus, the duration of the misery that someone horrible has inflicted involves maybe two hundred years at the most. Why would someone who inflicted two hundred years of misery on Planet Earth, at the most, deserve an eternity of total agony rather than two hundred years or so of such agony? This thought would make Heaven less than perfect bliss for me.

    Yes, I would be grateful to be there, of course. But my contentment would not be total because of empathy for any suffering in Hell that would be in excess of two hundred years -- which means that I cannot believe in every jot and tittle of the traditional description of Heaven, and our future unequivocally blissful experience of it, as making much sense.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Operacast
     
  4. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    ....'Cause it works...for me anyhow.
     
  5. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    thats just it .........I dont believe.... do I? I dont know. When something just makes absolutley no sense to me I cannot believe it. (as per my discussions with mee) I must be on e of these that need proof. tangible proof. I dunno. My world is so practical that even spiritualism is a fancy for me. My major problem is with the bible. Everything seems to be based onit. and I have a problem with it. Its got good stories and lots of lessons to be learnt but I cannnot and do not take it literally. and then there is every crackpot under the sun quoteing from it to back themselves and their faith. See what I mean. but its ok cos Im still looking and while Im looking Im open to ideas. I guess thats why Im here.
     
  6. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Not Everything. :) The Holy Qur'an isn't based on the christian bible....
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Where would it get its stories of Jesus without it? For that matter where would it have gotten its stories of Moses and the old testament, for it was Christians who produced and distributed the books and pamphlets widely. The prophet (pbuh) would probably not have had access to them without.
     
  8. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    To me, the purpose of religion is to get rid of the demons in our own hearts. Because I am sinful, I believe what I believe in order to make my heart pure.
     
  9. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    Assuming by "everything" grey, you mean religious teachings and not, well everything (you know car maintenance manuals n stuff): Are you sure? What about religious teachings that pre-date the Bible; they can't be based on the Bible can they? (e.g. the Vedas, the Tripitaka…)

    s.
     
  10. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    tripitaka........?????I thought that was just Monkeys travelling companion along with pigsy and the other guy. ( If you dont know the tv show Monkey Magic then please ignore this post)(whoooshes off on a cloud)
     
  11. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    The tripitaka are the early novels of the Buddha.

    s.
     
  12. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    no disrespect intended. my bad
     
  13. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    none to take. ya good!

    s.
     
  14. Taosaur

    Taosaur buddho-shamanic

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    This question prompted me to register for CR after lurking a bit :)

    I'll agree that there's an intrinsic reward for altruism of all sorts--witnessing or receiving compassion, but especially acting upon it, eases tension and increases one's sense of connectedness. I would see the theism bonus as coming from the personal aspect of gods--altruism is all about asserting social connection and affirming the social pact, and one's personal deity is the one social connection that's 'always on.' I would expect the same effect from a guru relationship with a human being, including in some instances a close parent relationship.

    For me, present humanitarian crises have a lot to do with theism running up against its limits--while it strengthens the impulse to altruism, it also strengthens com|munity in the sense of pooling arms against real and imagined aggressors. I tend to side with Joseph Campbell's assertion that we're in a period of mythogenesis--we need to find and/or be the new reformers bearing spiritual tools more applicable to the situation at hand.

    I believe this because I've listened, contemplated, and meditated and found it to hold up :)
     
  15. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Welcome, Taosaur! :)

    That jives with John 14:15-18 and 25-26
    15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
    <...>
    25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.​
    The one thing about the communal nature of the Holy Spirit is that it is a great equalizer against man-made hierarchical constructs. ;) 1 Corinthians 1:18-31
     
  16. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    My “beliefs” are simply the current expression of that which simultaneously correlates with and informs my orientation.

    s.
     
  17. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

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    Belief is what which give us some aim of life if you do not know what to do n what to belief okay a simple question what would our aim then ma belief alhamdulilah makes me feel what i belief is right n its what we should do n try.
     
  18. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    I would agree that something new needs to emerge in these desperate times. In fact, I might add that the current Presidential election season has made me even more ready to contemplate the very real possibility that not just humanity but all the other species on Earth could all go extinct within roughly a lifetime from now. All it would need is just a combination of disastrously irresponsible ecological destruction and multiple use of free-lance WMDs to bring this about. So the basic ingredients are already in place. Consequently, I view such an eventuality as more likely than not, right now.

    If something new does emerge in time, my guess would be that the new synthesis would be made up of certain concepts that are already out there, rather than something wholly unfamiliar. That's the only aspect here that gives me a little hope. The tools are already to hand. Now, this is strictly a guess, but the prime sources for a new synthesis of some sort might be a careful mining of those elements that, say, the earliest texts on Buddha, Socrates and Christ have in common. This is why I behaved so badly here when I encountered an unfortunate misunderstanding re this possible synthesis in a previous thread. I truly feel the survival of all of Earth's species is at stake within this very century. The stakes could not be higher.

    The sad misunderstanding in the previous thread lay in my having expressed myself very badly as to the framework for a new set of "spiritual tools", as you put it. Some thought I was suggesting a mere watering-down, a simplifying, of various traditions. But candidly, I could not be less interested in "traditions". Instead, I'm interested in specific texts -- the earliest texts on specific religious/philosophical pioneers being frequently ignored in the subsequent "traditions". So I'm suggesting a very painstaking survey of the very earliest texts on, say, just these three pioneers in particular, with a view to isolating any and all possible specific parallel notions/concepts that all three of these figures seem to have in common. This would be a daunting and time-gobbling task, requiring a whole team of linguists and scholars from a whole range of perspectives working 'round the clock.

    But since the alternative is imminent extinction .............. <shrug>

    Operacast
     

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