Is Tasering Okay?

[Pathless]

Two days ago, this student at the University of Florida was tasered for what boils down to being obnoxious and disruptive. He believed he had an important question to ask John Kerry at a speech. Sure, the argument could be made that this particular student was grandstanding, being disrespectful, obnoxious, and disruptive. The charges against him may be something like "Disturbing the Peace."

Should he have been tasered, though? Should anyone?

YouTube - Student Tasered At Kerry Speech: Longer Version

Beyond the police brutality here, what do people think of the student's (wish I knew his name) actual statements and questions?

 

[17th Angel]

Are you a police officer?... Wait, are you a police officer in a situation that COULD be a life or death situation?..... No? Is it just for you to say what is acceptable in force? Surley that police officer is a man of authority and power.... That I think is a must, he is there to protect.... :\ I think the world be going soft.... Where it used to be (here in England anyway) Big six foot something 200 pounds or over coppers... That wore big shiney boots and stuck them up your arse when you misbehaved... That was acceptable... The police officer judged how much force to use, no one blinked an eye.... You even so much as choke or hold a suspect now and it's oh no!!! the brutality!!! How terrible lol..... There is alot worse going on then police officers doing their jobs ;\ worry about that... :\

Tasering is it ok? You bet your ass it is I'd rather pistol whip, kick, punch, beat to the ground with a nightstick or headbutt... But tasering I guess is ok....

 

[Pathless]

Are you a police officer?... Wait, are you a police officer in a situation that COULD be a life or death situation?..... No? Is it just for you to say what is acceptable in force? Surley that police officer is a man of authority and power.... That I think is a must, he is there to protect.... :\ I think the world be going soft.... Where it used to be (here in England anyway) Big six foot something 200 pounds or over coppers... That wore big shiney boots and stuck them up your arse when you misbehaved... That was acceptable... The police officer judged how much force to use, no one blinked an eye.... You even so much as choke or hold a suspect now and it's oh no!!! the brutality!!! How terrible lol..... There is alot worse going on then police officers doing their jobs ;\ worry about that... :\

Tasering is it ok? You bet your ass it is I'd rather pistol whip, kick, punch, beat to the ground with a nightstick or headbutt... But tasering I guess is ok....

Did you even watch the video, 17th? Do you think this kid was a threat? A threat to four armed police officers, one of which was able to PICK HIM UP OFF OF THE GROUND with a little effort and carry him to the back of the auditorium??

No. This student wasn't any threat to those officers. They used unnecessary force.

Yes, it is our place as citizens to be outraged when sh-- like this happens in a society which is supposed to be the goddamned WORLD BENCHMARK for freedom and free speech--so much so that we are happy and entitled to go out and bomb the f out of other societies to deliver our brand of "freedom."

Give me a break. Daddy knows best? Bull. Law and order? Corruption is more like it.

 

[17th Angel]

No sound but what I can see is some stuck up "educated" kid lol...... He says his bit whatever it is he says... Then goes too far... The police are like "yeah ok you had your say time to move..." He resists!! Freaking resists!!! and just won't stfu.... lol

My final verdict... He had it coming.

 

[bob x]

Policemen like you need to be shot, for the public safety. C'mon, listen to yourself: Pathless asks how he was a danger, and you say he "won't stfu". So, your opinion is that anyone who is talking, in a way that you don't like, ought to be assaulted.

 

[wil]

Policemen like you need to be shot, for the public safety.

So now we've defined appropriate force, thank you. Kid who is asked repeatedly by authorities to cease and desist tasered...inappropriate.

Person who speaks his mind from the comfort of his computer, shoot them.

What a wonderful world it would be.

I'd rather be tasered or pepper sprayed than shot with 'rubber' bullets, beat with night sticks or killed. Protesters are there to push the limits of the police, run them ragged and to a point where they make mistakes. Protesters are often willing to be arrested to make their statement, influence public opinion, stir debate, increase support for their cause. If did not continue, and resist it would not have made the news and, we wouldn't be discussing, he would not have been successful. He was, it did, we are. I say all this as I have been that protester, more than once the past 30 years. From Vietnam and POW/MIA rallies to when they hauled us out from infront of the tanks when we stopped the parade...as a protest to invasion of Grenada (I think they were about to attack us, Grenada that is) and then the 'die in' last weekend at the US Capitol against our continued occupation of Iraq.

 

[bob x]

Person who speaks his mind from the comfort of his computer, shoot them.

No, not for speaking his mind: because he is out on the streets, assaulting anyone who he thinks "deserves it" according to his standards, such as those who speak in ways he find "stuck up".
I have met many policemen I respect, but there are an increasing number of places where the police are nothing more than another gang, better armed and more dangerous than most.

 

[Pathless]

17th is a police officer??

Damn.

 

[Pathless]

Surley that police officer is a man of authority and power.... That I think is a must, he is there to protect.... :\

Bleh, I think this is a naive and fallacious assumption, Mr. Angel. I find no reason to believe that men of "authority and power" often have the best interest of the common man in mind.

I think the world be going soft.... Where it used to be (here in England anyway) Big six foot something 200 pounds or over coppers... That wore big shiney boots and stuck them up your arse when you misbehaved... That was acceptable...

No, that wouldn't have been acceptable, either. Speaking for myself.

 

[17th Angel]

Policemen like you need to be shot.

Good call... Tasering... A NON fatal method bad!

Shooting.. SHOOTING, let me define that with a bit more detail.... Killing or intent to kill a person of authority...... Is ok.... ? You got issues sun shine.

So now we've defined appropriate force, thank you. Kid who is asked repeatedly by authorities to cease and desist tasered...inappropriate.

Person who speaks his mind from the comfort of his computer, shoot them.

What a wonderful world it would be.

lol, snap.

17th is a police officer??

Damn.

Ask flow.... lol....

Bleh, I think this is a naive and fallacious assumption, Mr. Angel. I find no reason to believe that men of "authority and power" often have the best interest of the common man in mind.

It isn't about that, come on... Some people can get.... Slighty too much into something, they can become unpredictable, you know? Maybe a lil crazy... In most cases I would say it is better to strike then be sorry that you didn't saftey is all... The kid got a shock... He'll live... You telling me you haven't taken worse beatings in your life? Or that the student hasn't taken a bigger beating? It's a temporary thing... The student became unruly and as I said yes lol wouldn't shut up lol. He was disrupting a debate or whatever (remember I have no sound card on this cpu.) And after CONSTANT warnings he still refused.... It's one thing to have your say.. WHICH HE DID.... But then it is another thing to disrupt the peace And ignore officers of the freaking law. THE LAW!


I also think, perhaps many of you have innocent eyes... You haven't seen much of the world of "violence" and "order".... This is a walk in the park, trust me, no need for arms around the world... There is no brutality here... This was done correct... They cautioned. They warned, the attempted to calm the situation down, they tried to remove him from the area... Still trying to make it as much of a problem as possible... Bam, taser, obedience please.... Thanks.

There is a thin line, a thin line of law... These people, sure they are people, but they represent and uphold the law... The law is something that defines us from other animals... It has to be respected.... If I were the student, two police officers firstly come to me, and say ok come on son, tone it down... I'd stop take a breath... Am I causing a scene? Are these officers giving me a formal warning? Yes? Perhaps I should go outside have a smoke and calm down.... I vaguely recall another debate? Scientology anyone? The man became angry and started shouting, screaming causing a scene...... I can't recall sorry, did the majority say his way of getting something across was right? I can't remember... Remind me....

[and still] My final Verdict: You're all over reacting, and he had it coming.

 

[flowperson]

Ask flow.... lol....


[and still] My final Verdict: You're all over reacting, and he had it coming.

Hi...Point one...no comment !

Point two...there used to be a place in front of the Newberry library in Chicago, a square filled with benches and trees, called, facetiously, "Bughouse Square". On sunday afternoons, people who were so inclined to rail against the establishment, could stand on stumps and wooden boxes and say their piece, whatever that might be. People like Studs Terkel were birthed in these sorts of environments. Of course people who disagreed with the speakers' issue taking were also invited and encouraged to "get in the faces" of the lecturers and enlighten them as to their opinions also.

These days, people do not ever have the place or time to really state their heartfelt beliefs. That may spontaneously cause disorder (gasp !) and that must be squelched at any cost. The preferred method these days is to encourage "self-censorship" so that novel information regarding the corrupt state of "the authorities" and statements relating to it never, ever see the light of day in public or private. How is this magical thing done you say ?

Well, it's done by having cameras and other snoopery devices everywhere, and by making that fact known so that protest is openly, yet subtly, discouraged and stifled before it even rears its hoary head. People who are constantly watched and listened to are much more likely to shut themselves up even before they even think of speaking out. This very thing, which has grown by leaps and bounds in urban environments for about forty years now, is the primary governing device upon open protest.

The other device devised by our government-sponsored, digitally- manipulating psychological gurus is what I call the" mass media control drama". An event is set up and controlled in ways to derive a desired outcome of public opinion that serves the purposes of public governance, ie. effective long-term modification and control of the opinions of the populace.

A Senator is brought to a public forum to speak. This person is so prominent that he even once aspired to Presidential office. A youthful protester is knowingly included in the audience with the intent of using him and his known tendencies to cause disruption. The disruption occurs. Police react with "appropriate" non-lethal, yet terribly painful. tasering to subdue the rabble-rouser. The incident is recorded and broadcast globally thru digital channels. All the while, everyone except the authorities are ignorant of the fact that the episode was staged and controlled from the outset to produce a desired outcome. It happens every day now, more and more often, and it is all turning us into a mass of creativeless drones.

Have a happy day everyone !

flow....

 

[17th Angel]

Give us a smile Flow!!!

 

[wil]

Well, it's done by having cameras and other snoopery devices everywhere, and by, making that fact known so that protest is openly, yet subtly, discouraged and stifled before it even rears its hoary head. People who are constantly watched and listened to are much more likely to shut themselves up even before they even think of speaking out. This very thing, which has grown by leaps and bounds in urban environments for about forty years now, is the primary governing device upon open protest.

I find the other thing is just the nonexisitent news coverage. The war protest marches have become regular enough and small enough that they are willing to give us an 8 lane road from the White House to the Capitol for the afternoon...30-40 thousand marching minimum disruption of traffic...few arrests, no media coverage...it never happened.

Now the cameras...DC must have thousands who knows where they all are...but the mobile vantage points are made completely visible as you indicated...scissor lifts with mobile guard towers elevated above the road, big RV style mobile command centers with their telescoping pan/zoom/tilt camera checking us all out...at first some folks I was with thought that it was a news van...I pointed out it was big brother...

But in reality, I'd say most police are trying to serve and protect, and when in this situation

 

[flowperson]

Hi Guys...See wil, I've been saying for years that it's the industrial/military/entertainment complex and their/our greed that is the problem.

17th....

flow....

 

[wil]

Hi Guys...See wil, I've been saying for years that it's the industrial/military/entertainment complex and their/our greed that is the problem.

17th....

flow....

oh yeah....1984 Big Brother is here, with two surprises...it is us and we request it!

Who said if you trade liberty for safety you've got neither??

Well we've been trading liberty for convenience for years.

Now the latest and greatest around here is 'speed pass' it is a system whereby you can go on toll roads and toll bridges and not stop at the tolls, as the sensor picks up where your car the money is deducted from your bank account or charged to your credit card.

Well now they are building commuter lanes and toll roads w/o tolls, you either pay by speedpass at a discount or by the camera that takes a picture of your plate and sends you the bill. These are being installed have indications they will be all over...every 3 or 4 lane road will have a toll fast lane so you can sit in traffic or pay extra to slide by everyone on the outside...

The added quirk to this is they have a complete log of where your car is and what your driving habits are. Who is they? Anyone that wants to pay for it. The DOT sells info to private companies for increased revenue...they can search the database and see that you typically buy a new car every two to three years....low and behold 18 months after your last car purchase or 6 months prior to your lease expiring you get voicemail, text messages and junk mail from car dealers hawking their wares. Or if you always commute through a town every thursday suddenly you notice adds for restaraunts 30 miles from your home...

Or for instance down at the march....SUVs driving around equipped with the speed pass sensors driving through the streets and parking lots Saturday afternoon to see who came into town for the march...

 

[Pathless]

Hi...Point one...no comment !

Oh no, that's not fair. First Officer Angel defers to answer a simple question, and now Flow?? Golly gee willikers, officers, am I to simply assume that the two of you are some kind of winky-winky partners in organized crime?



Lame. Somebody answer the question. It's legit: 17th, are you a police officer? Flow, are you?

A Senator is brought to a public forum to speak. This person is so prominent that he even once aspired to Presidential office. A youthful protester is knowingly included in the audience with the intent of using him and his known tendencies to cause disruption. The disruption occurs. Police react with "appropriate" non-lethal, yet terribly painful. tasering to subdue the rabble-rouser. The incident is recorded and broadcast globally thru digital channels. All the while, everyone except the authorities are ignorant of the fact that the episode was staged and controlled from the outset to produce a desired outcome. It happens every day now, more and more often, and it is all turning us into a mass of creativeless drones.

I don't believe that Big Brother is this intelligent and all-controlling. Even so, it works both ways, doesn't it, though? The weapon that Authority wields against dissent actually cuts Authority, too--it cuts both ways. I believe there are still many intellligent and principled people, even in our dumbed-down, media-saturated "democracitic republics", who aren't cowards, and when they see stupid footage of someone exercising their "freedom of speech" being forcibily removed, silenced, and tasered, that sparks outrage . Sure, it's not a Rodney King scenario--or is it? It can be answered the same damn way: "Can't we all just get along??"

Have a happy day everyone !

flow....

Indeed.

 

[Pathless]

He was disrupting a debate or whatever (remember I have no sound card on this cpu.) And after CONSTANT warnings he still refused.... It's one thing to have your say.. WHICH HE DID.... But then it is another thing to disrupt the peace And ignore officers of the freaking law. THE LAW!

Okay, 17th. Here's the deal, he was not 'disrupting a debate.' This event was not a debate. This, I believe, was an event where Senator John Kerry came down to an university in Florida and gave a talk. After he was done with his talk, he and the event producers opened the floor up to questions, as they often do at these things. I have been to many events like this one. When the speaker is done with the main event, there are often mics set up and people from the audience have an opportunity to ask questions. This child was taking his opportunity and using it to make a point and ask several questions. He had waited his turn, I believe, and had followed proper procedure.

The powers that be did not like his tone, his attitude, and his presentation. They can be seen in the video exerting verbal pressure: "Ask your question," to which he responds, "I am going to ask my question, but I want to inform people first." He challenges Kerry on some points and issues: "Why did you concede the election in 2004 so quickly?" he asks.

I am providing you with some relevant details, 17th, as I understand that you have no sound on your cpu and therefore haven't really watched the video. You have watched a pantomime and projected onto it your own preconceptions and judgements. It's kind of like watching The Wizard of Oz all stoned or trippin' with the sound turned down and Pink Floyd's album Dark Side of the Moon turned up. Know what I mean? wink wink, nudge nudge

Please, before jumping to any more conclusions, 17th, do me a favor. Watch the video with the sound turned up.

I also think, perhaps many of you have innocent eyes... You haven't seen much of the world of "violence" and "order".... This is a walk in the park, trust me, no need for arms around the world... There is no brutality here... This was done correct... They cautioned. They warned, the attempted to calm the situation down, they tried to remove him from the area... Still trying to make it as much of a problem as possible... Bam, taser, obedience please.... Thanks.

Simply disagree, thank you very much for your authoritative opinion. I know you are a prominent advocate of law and order and drug use.

I vaguely recall another debate? Scientology anyone? The man became angry and started shouting, screaming causing a scene...... I can't recall sorry, did the majority say his way of getting something across was right? I can't remember... Remind me....

lolz...

are you referring to Tom Cruise?? Was Tom Cruise arrested for his beliefs? Was he hassled, tasered, forcibliy silenced? Or was he just subject to public murmurings and sneering ridicule for what he believes in? Big difference in my mind, and a much more appropriate response.

kthnx

My final Verdict: You're all over reacting, and he had it coming.

And still: I disagree. You are justifying and blowing off state-sponsored violence.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Flow!

A Senator is brought to a public forum to speak. This person is so prominent that he even once aspired to Presidential office. A youthful protester is knowingly included in the audience with the intent of using him and his known tendencies to cause disruption. The disruption occurs. Police react with "appropriate" non-lethal, yet terribly painful. tasering to subdue the rabble-rouser. The incident is recorded and broadcast globally thru digital channels. All the while, everyone except the authorities are ignorant of the fact that the episode was staged and controlled from the outset to produce a desired outcome. It happens every day now, more and more often, and it is all turning us into a mass of creativeless drones.

Oh, my goodness! Are you suggesting that a liberal, a democrat, might actually be up to staging such a prank? A prank which suggests the silencing of a moderate/conservative voice of a student in opposition? In Florida, no less? Come to think of it, it was somewhat amusing that Kerry had nothing to say about the incident, which effectively ended his speaking engagement (it was not a debate, Kerry officially is not in the presidential race this time).

No, I simply cannot believe that a liberal democratic senator would stage a prank such as this in the state of Florida! Afterall, we're still reeling from that *other* Florida political debacle, hanging chads. Oh yes, and that other political debacle of daring to move our primary election date forward.

No, I cannot understand why the democratic party should wish to make a further nuisance out of the state that until recently was governed by our fair president's own blood brother.

I do hope my sarcasm comes through,

Big brother? Indeed. And we are asking for it, nay begging for it.

 

[wil]

It can be answered the same damn way: "Can't we all just get along??"

Namaste Pathless,

I can answer for myself, I ain't no cop. Of course as we know when we were under 30 and we didn't trust anyone over 30 we thought that question when answered in the affirmative would imply entrapment and protect oneself from prosecution....clearly not so.

But back to your question...Can't we all just get along.... Can you please tell us how the tasered individual in this case was trying to get along? He clearly wasn't he was in provocation mode, get my point across mode, raising his hand and saying, ME, ME. Been there done that. Now if one isn't aware of the potential outcomes of this...one really has no business being there.

Did the police over react??....maybe. Were they put into a situation where the likelihood of them over reacting, erring to the cautious side...errr....yes. Do I fault them in this situation....no...not with the information currently provided.

When the Secret Service, BATF, State or local Police, have had me surrounded and arms drawn in the past...I've backed down. But when they reholster their weapons and cameras are rolling...I go back in to active noise mode. (sometimes much to the chagrin of my compatriots)

 

[juantoo3]

One point to concede to Pathless, the student was already under submission by the officers *before* he was tasered. From the local reports, there is an investigation underway, a portion having to do with whether or not the student was already handcuffed at the time he was tasered, which would constitute inappropriate use of force. The two officers primarily involved are suspended with pay until the investigation concludes, according to the evening news last night.

On the *up* side to all of this (if it can be said to have one), I see it is already opening up a dialogue about inappropriate use of force by those charged with protecting us.