Is Tasering Okay?

Lame. Somebody answer the question. It's legit: 17th, are you a police officer? Flow, are you?

I don't believe that Big Brother is this intelligent and all-controlling.

Lame...This little exchange is a tit for tat that 17th and I are having because I asked him on another thread if he was an "undercover copper" and he responded "no comment".

I can assure you that despite my aged and fragile body and even more precarious emotional and mental state that I am still a borderline anarchist and can go into a "violation of individual rights rant" at the drop of a hat. There are those who would like to view me as being some sort of cop, but I assure you and them that my heart just isn't into doing anything other than protecting others and, to the extent possible, providing them with service when required, even though my brain might be required to do otherwise.

I can also assure you that the state of the art technological systems available today can indeed control a fixed environment and the individuals operating within them to a degree that most would believe to be impossible. Human activities within artificial constructions are, under the appropriate conditions, thoroughly controllable and manipulatable. And this opinion is based upon knowledge that I acquired twenty tears ago. I question anything like this episode that makes the media spin machines go crazy. There's usually always something purposeful behind know, life imitates art, art imitates life, life imitates art, etc....

yeah, I watched this footage on TV and thought- way- bit strong, that... the guy was already on the floor and surrounded by men, he wasn't a crazed psycho with a big gun, he was just a guy opening his mouth when people didn't want him to. they tasered him, even though he was already prone, on the floor, unable to move, sheesh, man... I'm so happy I live here... be quiet- no... zap!
In reading all the reports it appears to me Andrew intended on making as large a scene as possible. And getting tasered did exactly as he wished. He brought his statements, his best game, and his cameraman to record everything so we would be talking about it today.

So let's see you or someone paid or provided the hall, you've paid for advertising to get people to come so you can tell your story (Kerry or anyone else) and have got security there to insure things go smoothly.

Now someone else decides to take advantage of your efforts (he is not willing or capable of gathering his own crowd in his own hall) and is set on disrupting your efforts.

Once it has started, they ask him to leave, they cut off his mike, they attempt to move him from the hall... all to no avail, until they jolt him with a supposedly non lethal electrical shock which subdues yet creates no long lasting damage...

How would anyone else have handled it?

Note...he was chuckling as he was taken outside as to the how 'he's got them now'

I see it all as intentional....carefully weighed and calculated the risks vs. reward correctly...he would have been pissed had it not gone the way it did.
heckling is part of the public speakers' game... if you are going to make a speech, give a talk, demonstration, presentation, et cetera, to the public, then don't be suprised if you meet up with a heckler...

of course, hecklers are a pain- you have this cleverly worded speech, or idea, to convey to the assembled, all of which are usually supportive of your message when- a voice pipes up at the back- "you're talking shite"

anyone who has been in this situation knows what comes next...

as the titled speaker, you make it look like you're listening to the heckler. Then you offer them an answer. If that doesn't shut them up, you then proceed to step b- you tell them you are very interested in what they have to say and will speak to them later, after you've finished. Usually that stops them.

However, if you have a heckler who just won't "stfu", you then proceed to step c- you turn the audience against them. You tell the heckler that they are being disruptive, and you tell the audience you're sorry for the disruption. The audience then turns on the heckler, usually meting out dissaproving glances and murmurs of "stfu".

Nine times out of ten, this is enough. Social awareness kick in, and the person modifies their behaviour to suit the mood of the public/audience.

However, if you have a professional heckler, they will not be moved by any of the above, and you have to procced to step D- eviction. You ask the person to leave. If they don't go, you summon security and have a person removed.

Of course, depending on what kind of meeting it is, a heckler might find themselves dragged out and beaten. I might expect to be dragged out and beaten lightly if I was heckling at an "unofficial" BNP meeting in the back room of a dodgy boozer, but I don't expect to turn up at a nice, safe, middle class institution and be treated the same way.

I can't quite believe 17th is a copper. A copper's nark, maybe (lol), but a gun toting pot smoking copper..? nah...
Okay, 17th. Here's the deal, he was not 'disrupting a debate.' This event was not a debate. This, I believe, was an event where Senator John Kerry came down to an university in Florida and gave a talk.

Okay, Sir, here is the deal, as I have said I have no sound I am going on what I can see not hear lol.....

He had waited his turn, I believe, and had followed proper procedure.

Refusing to cooperate with the police is how you would define "proper procedure"..... OK I see what kinda guy you are P-nut...

The powers that be did not like his tone, his attitude, and his presentation. They can be seen in the video exerting verbal pressure: "Ask your question," to which he responds, "I am going to ask my question, but I want to inform people first." He challenges Kerry on some points and issues: "Why did you concede the election in 2004 so quickly?" he asks.

I see, I see, I see..... Did they verbally ask him to change his tone attitude and way?

I am providing you with some relevant details, 17th, as I understand that you have no sound on your cpu and therefore haven't really watched the video. You have watched a pantomime and projected onto it your own preconceptions and judgements. It's kind of like watching The Wizard of Oz all stoned or trippin' with the sound turned down and Pink Floyd's album Dark Side of the Moon turned up. Know what I mean? ;);) wink wink, nudge nudge :rolleyes: :p

Details are always relevant NO MATTER HOW SMALL! You are very helpful. My thanks. Are you judging that my own preconceptions and judgements are wrong??!?!?!

I have never seen the wizard of oz.... Or listened to Pink Floyd.... No idea what you're talking aboot. :)

Simply disagree, thank you very much for your authoritative opinion. I know you are a prominent advocate of law and order and drug use. :rolleyes:

You'd be suprised.... ;)


are you referring to Tom Cruise?? Was Tom Cruise arrested for his beliefs? Was he hassled, tasered, forcibliy silenced? Or was he just subject to public murmurings and sneering ridicule for what he believes in? Big difference in my mind, and a much more appropriate response.


Oh, oh no, wait up, oh no you DIDN'T! Don't kthx me! I do the kthx'n around here. Ok? Kthx....

No not Cruise... The guy that TV news guy interviewed...

And still: I disagree. You are justifying and blowing off state-sponsored violence.

I respect that... But think it's baloney..... lol. (that is almost as good as my: "I'm not saying I don't trust you, and I'm not saying I do... But, I don't." Saying) If it is sponsored, it has to be for a good cause... SURLEY! Again I fail to see Violence... lol any bones broken? Cuts bruises? Deaths? Could he use his legs ever again? He was just stunned in TEH NAME OF TEH LOR! Imagine If it was freaking Judge Dredd!!$£"£!$ (I AM TEH LOR!!!) He's lucky in all respect... He lived. Anyway, back on track... This isn't violence! This is JUSTICE! :D

I can't quite believe 17th is a copper. A copper's nark, maybe (lol), but a gun toting pot smoking copper..? nah...

You have no grasp of who I am huh? A freaking Nark lol... Puhleeze...... However I should state... If YOU know something of a crime that is happening or has happened, there is nothing wrong with coming forward to your local police station and reporting what you have seen. Even stopping a patrol car or passing officer... Your name will not be brought up unless you are an eye witness called in court.... Do what's right kiddies.... Call teh lor! Also please do not contact the emergency line (999 911) unless the crime is happening if it is a crime that has happened there are help lines you can call.... Thanks again kids! Remember If you see something wrong, do something right....... ;)
Both the story and 17ths grumpy old man part 386394 rant.

You may think you are watched close over the pond there but here it is worse. Every email, every phone call of any kind is digitally recorded and stored for 7 years. We have a rate of one CCTV camera for every 35 people. All our public sector records are accessible without court orders by a wide range of public sector organisations and quangos. These also have the right to see your banking records. 1984 indeed.

Do what's right kiddies.... Call teh lor!
Once the police become perceived as just another gang, more heavily armed and dangerous than most, so that parents have to teach their kids to be more afraid of the cops than of the robbers, this won't happen anymore. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US this kind of rot is widespread now.
Yes, the "firms" of England class the riot squad here as the biggest "firm" and not to mess with them lol.... But apart from that no our police officers have become less respected over the age... At one time they were feared and respected.. Not a evil fear.... A fear such as the christians "god fearing" way... The standards have slacked the leash has been put on... And the officers' hands have been binded slightly... And of course with this their authority get's questioned by some snot nosed spotty little youth who will swear and even attempt to assault and officer.... Sad times, sad times.

I was brought up, (as I am sure most can guess) the way my parents were brought up... The good ol' days... I wasn't taught the police were a big evil gang to be scared of, but to listen and not mess with them... IF I did then to be scared of them, but most importantly to realise they are not an enemy, they are a service.....

I think it is a shame that parents there are preaching this to their children.... But, I guess from this I have a good idea what the parents are like.
Yet all of this fearing and 'respecting' seems to go against the grain of the supposed independent spirit of the "American Way." Again, supposedly, our country over here was "founded" (perhaps conquered would be a more appropriate word?) in the name of freedom; life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The attitude of fearing the law because they are simply the law, or even because they have the people's "best interests" in mind, is contrary to the spirit of independence.

People know what is in their best interest more than the law does. The law says that I should not be able to put certain substances in my body. The law says that I should not have sexual relations in a certain way. How is any of this the law's business?? The constitution guarantees my freedom of speech, while "the law" practically takes it away. Forgive me if I do not respect the law or fear it.

Fear? Yes, the law is scary. It is big and often stupid and armed with clubs and guns. Often, it is drunk on its own Authority. Too often it does not have the people's best interest in mind. It has someone, or something's interest in mind, but I am far from convinced it is really attuned to the interest of common woman and man and child.
most importantly to realise they are not an enemy, they are a service.....
It's fine to teach your kids that, where it is true. It is not true everywhere.
I think it is a shame that parents there are preaching this to their children.... But, I guess from this I have a good idea what the parents are like.
No, I don't think you do.
That's different.

Yes it is. Yet the abuse of power by those in authority and those given deadly weapons is wrong, whether practiced in the racial heat of Los Angeles, in a musty auditorium in Florida, or at an airport in Canada. In L.A., the police might be quicker to pull the trigger on a gun instead of a taser, and the social, racial, and class context may be much more sinister and grim than a taser incident, yet using a taser to impress authority upon someone is still an abuse of power. Tasers can be deadly. Two taser blasts killed a Polish man in a Canadian airport last month:

Nation & World | Poland criticizes fatal Taser incident in Canada | Seattle Times Newspaper
Canadian police condemned for graphic Taser death | International | Reuters

Was it a necessary use of force? This sad situation should cause people to question if other methods can be used to subdue out-of-control individuals when necessary.
This sad situation should cause people to question if other methods can be used to subdue out-of-control individuals when necessary.

I suppose they could use waterboarding as they seem very fond of that ;)

No tasering is not okay unless the person is holding a gun, then it is preferable to shooting them dead imo.