Since this is a forum about Ouija boards
and their use, I'm going to go out on a limb, and explain exactly
what I believe occurs in many cases ... when a group of sincere individuals uses a board. I agree with all that you've said, Ben, and I know that often enough it's the subconscious
we're getting in touch with, yet I do believe
that we can also contact the deceased, or the discarnate
... even potentially non-human spirits
What I'm afraid mee
doesn't understand, is that all three
of the latter cases CAN BE JUST AS GOOD,
, as they can bad,
. My only regret is that there is so much mumbo-jumbo out there, so much ignorance, superstition, and misinformation/disinformation
... that, much like in UFO circles, people tend to see this as an all-or-nothing
prospect. Either ouija boards and their use is 100% good
, accurate, acceptable, etc. ...
or we have mee's type of fearful, suspicious, superstitious paranoia
about it, which is no better than the skeptic's charge - that's it's all, 100% BUNK.
So what do I
think? Simple ...
In many cases, the ideomotor
effect is definitely, or most likely, tapping in to one's own subconscious
- OR perhaps, superconscious
, if you will. I distinguish, because I believe the real goal
, in cases of Divination, is the latter. Subconscious influence, in terms of the ideomotor effect, will not necessarily give us helpful, accurate or inspired/inspiring
advice ... whereas I believe that superconscious
do so. This is because we are seeking contact, via a ouija board or whatever
, with our Soul (Higher Self, Buddha Nature, Christ Self, Inner Guide, Inner Light, etc.
Now if one looks at the early days of the Theosophical Movement, leading up to the establishing of the Theosophical Society in 1875, one can see that H.P. Blavatsky had a great interest in Spiritualism
. This was - and is - a Movement unto itself
, being inspired by one of our world's greatest Adepts
, Master Hilarion (Whom mee reads about in his bible as St. Paul
). This does not mean that any time a bunch of folks sit down to have a seance
, they are automatically in the right
... nor does it mean that contacting the recently deceased
is always okay
. Arguably, it is SELDOM okay, and even then, only conditionally
But anyone who is familiar with the Master H., and with the esoteric teaching on the Seven Rays, will likely also know that Master H. is the 5th Ray Lord
... the 5th Ray being that of Concrete Science. This has everything
to do with the Scientific Revolution, and everything to do with Humanity's own, inherent need, as a 4th and a 5th Ray entity
, to learn about and understand things scientifically
The inspiration behind the Spiritualistic Movement
, of the 19th Century both in America and in Europe, is thus - largely - the Master H., PRECISELY
in an effort to help us with a SOLID, SCIENTIFIC understanding of "the other side" ...
or, what lies beyond the veil of death.
Now gee, let's see, mee ... it was, in fact, St. Paul the Initiate who dictated the Book of Revelation to the advanced Disciple, John the Beloved
. So, if you want to blather on about how reading your Bible
is the only way YOU
feel comfortable learning about
something like DEATH
... then that's fine.
In fact, doing so just shows (ME) that you prefer to study the earlier writings
of the same MASTER ... Whose LATER
writings, and dictations, appeal to others.
Have I lost you yet?
Well, sure enough,
SOMETIMES, when a group of open-minded individuals sits down at the table with a ouija board, if
there is the right type of psycho-spiritual alchemy
, let us say ... THEN there will be, sure enough, an opening to the astral (or higher) world(s)
. This allows for communication with entities that may be:
- recently deceased humans.
- discarnate humans (in the higher worlds, possibly even Masters).
- non-human entities, never have been human or physically incarnate.
The idea to communicate with recently deceased humans
needs to be carefully considered, and as Madame Blavatsky continued to work under the instruction of her Teachers, she soon found that only a small number of Spiritualists
, or folks interested in that type of spirit communication
, could actually make good esoteric students
- and move on to what she had to offer.
This was because it becomes vital
to understand enough about the nature of our after-death state(s)
, to ACCEPT that not everyone SHOULD communicate, after death, with those of us still in incarnation
. It CAN be harmful, and it CAN lead to undesirable results. The great irony, of course, is that the Bible is FULL of
cases, in which PRECISELY Spirit Communication
is happening! But I guess we'll just have to overlook that one, for the moment ...
Anyone interested can read more about the Spiritualistic Movement at Wikipedia
Personally, I don't think folks like mee
sit down at a ouija board. The reason should be evident. If I am focused, already, on `demons and devils,'
then will it be any real surprise
when this is EXACTLY what I bring through?
Too much television
, and overactive imaginations, have led to these crazy ideas that Hell itself
is going to spawn before us in our living room, and while that makes for cheesy Constantine-like, Keanu Reeves movies
, and gives me & 17th stuff to snicker about, it's not exactly what happens even when ouija board experiences end up negative
. But unquestionably, negative or undesirable influences
can sometimes - even often enough - get contacted, though this is owing largely to the very character, motive and circumstances
of the users
of the board, and in such cases, we pretty much have instant karma
... you get what you ASKED for!
Even here, circumstances seldom get out of hand, though we can end up with a genuine haunting
, or an excess of negativity focused upon, and through, the aura of the especially vulnerable
... and this just makes things difficult, until the person, or persons, right the wrong
they have set in motion. Even when their mistake was innocent enough
, they must close the door they have unintentionally opened ... but anyone who is familiar at all
with esoteric or occult Law(s) will recognize that Nature itself, allows for just these kinds of mistakes
What we are dealing with, after all, are the occasional `bad apple'
type of discarnate humans, either those with a heavy, negative karma
- who have recently transitioned and perhaps become temporarily `stuck
' ... or yet, sometimes it is entities in the third category
, consisting of the lower orders
of mischievous, nature spirits, or elementals
. Mee, you might try familiarizing yourself with OTHER WRITINGS than your Holy Bible
you wish to truly understand all this.
Should your wish be to simply communicate that we should be CAREFUL as we use Divinatory aids
, then I think you've made your point. I've echoed it. "Fools rush in, where Angels fear to tread."
Yet I ask you, mee, what do you know about the lower orders of the devas? About the thought-forms, which you yourself CREATE, and strengthen, and energize, when you imagine DEMONS and DEVILS and things that go BUMP in the night?
Did you know, even, that your thoughts might be the very ones
which HAUNT the poor, innocent victims of a seance gone wrong?
Hmmm. You don't think so? Well let me ask you ... do you ever get angry? Do you EVER, even for a moment, become fearful or fretful?
We just don't realize, most of us, that we build the world of our thoughts
, and of our fears, and of 99.9% of the negativity that is out there
, WITH OUR OWN MINDS, and emotions, and imaginations. So, too, do we construct the kinds of thoughts, and uplifiting emotional states, which free Humanity from our enslavement to the worlds of matter ... and darkness, and ignorance.
None of us can say, No! Not I! I am exempt!
Yet the 2nd category
of Beings that might be contacted via ouija boards, or even at a seance, which rightfully also ought to include the Higher Orders of the Devas (or Angels, and ArchAngels)
largely free from all the normal limitations that affact 99.9% of Humanity. And WHEN our motives are pure enough
, and WHEN the circumstances are just right, I KNOW
- and do not have to speculate
- that yes, even a ouija board
, can put a person in touch ... with a Mystic or a Saint, an Angel Teacher or a Master Guide, and even - if we are so lucky - with the Christ (or World Teacher) Himself
My own experience, I have already offered, as testimony, and confirmation.
I think the Jehovah's Witnesses call this WITNESSING.
And I AM, a living witness, to what I have just said.
Either we then come to understand the Wisdom of our Bibles
(whatever our religion may be, and whatever book
we may look to for guidance), or else we are barking up the wrong tree.
And as I have said, you can quote that thing SIX WAYS FROM SUNDAY
... and still
, miss the point.
Experience sometimes IS the best teacher, yet I don't feel, just because there are people who can consciously ASTRAL TRAVEL (leave their bodies)
, that I too
, must learn to do this. Remember, Fools rush in, where Angels fear to tread.
No one is saying that you
have to use a ouija board, mee, since it makes you so uncomfortable
. I have already given you, and others, several good reasons
why THAT WOULD BE UNWISE. You yourself recognize this, even if all you are doing is using a circular reference
... for your guide.
And you may even know others
who have had a bad experience, for the reasons I have mentioned
, I think you'll find. All the more reason, why you are suspicious, and cautious
... and there's nothing wrong with playing it safe.
But to impose your reasons
for your OWN wariness upon OTHERS
.... that's just unhelpful, and awfully presumptuous. I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, so it's NOT EVEN REMOTELY close, to being sound advice, offered from someone of LIKE MIND.
The best it can be, is the BEST advice you know how to give ...
and because of that, because this is a DISCUSSION group, a set of forums, where you have OTHER
understandings, and interpretations, and spiritual paths
, I have tried to show why it can be
alright, even helpful, to use a ouija board (!) - even as I agree with much that Ben
has shared, and with what others have shared.
Thus, I have tried to allow for your
understanding, mee, and to make it clear that I think we all have a degree of familiarity with your background, and your (presumed) intentions
... yet I would do everything I'm able to remove the superstition
, and bring these kinds of things to LIGHT, as best I'm able, because we aren't meant
to remain in darkness (ignorance) about them. And even if what I have to share is literally, just ONE, tiny experience
, it is nonetheless my TESTIMONY, it is DIRECT experience ... and remember, it only takes ONE exception, to DISPROVE the rule
, inasmuch as there might
even be such a thing, as you seem to believe, mee, about not using divination, because ALL you can contact are `evil spirits.'
It comes back to MOTIVE ... and if you think that everyone who studies the Bible has equally pure, spotlessly pure MOTIVE
, then think again. Shall I rattle on about how wrong it is to study the BIBLE, because you might contact an evil spirit?
If that disturbs you, or strikes you as odd, then I would suggest you don't actually know the least thing
about modern (`New Age'
) forms of Divination ... and for that matter, I'm not sure you know much about the Divination of the Bible, either - as I say, that book being FULL of it
. Err, full of Divination, I mean.
I challenge you to respond to what I've shared WITHOUT quoting the Bible.
Tell me something in your own thoughts.
calling upon the authority of a 2000 year old text
, which really doesn't have any direct bearing on a discussion under ALT-MAGICK, anyway!
Just talk about your own experiences, if you like,
or even share those of someone you KNOW (rather than heard about) ... and as you do so, look to my post
, and see if it hasn't been covered by #1 or #3
, or - perhaps - by #2
. It's either one of those, or the person's own
super/sub-conscious, I will argue. Can you prove me wrong?
Ben, et al,
all I was really going to say, was that I think even in the cases of the ideomotor effect
, what we sometimes have, is the Higher influence
of a `Noble Spirit' - be that Human, formerly Human, or Angelic/Devic
- and thus, the real communication
is taking place beyond
our physical awareness, and the way this reaches us
, is - of course - the ideomotor effect,
which we see via the board, pendulum, etc.
The source of the information
, is what is external, outside our immediate awareness
... yet it is `OUR hand(s) which guide the planchette
or pendulum ...
My own belief is that the best way to use a ouija board
, is triangulated. That is, have THREE people
, always, rather than oneself alone, or two, or more than three. This is for esoteric reasons, and allows for the most stable arrangement
of inherent, or natural forces/influences ... preventing two
people for kind of, subconsciously battling over the answer
(Yes/No questions are best to start out with), and actually it also references the Biblical
statement made by Christ Himself, which I think is esoterically true regardless
of one's religion, and regardless
of how we recognize the underlying meaning of "In My Name,"
so long as we actually understand
This, of course, is the difference between Spirit
, and dead letter