Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Azure24, Feb 5, 2008.
the bible always gives us the answer
And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off,
(Lit., “lopping off; pruning.” Gr., ko′la·sin. )
but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”matthew 25;46
yes Jehovahs GREAT day is on the horizon ,ZEPHENIAH 1;14
in the bible there have been other (days of Jehovah,) but the .....GREAT DAY OF JEHOVAH IS NEAR
For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late.HABAKKUK 2;3
“Before the statute gives birth to anything, before the day has passed by just like chaff, before there comes upon you people the burning anger of Jehovah, before there comes upon you the day of Jehovah’s anger, SEEKJehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. SEEK righteousness,SEEK meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.”—Zep 2:2, 3.
that probably lies with us , it is up to us to .SEEK SEEK AND SEEK
Ok, since when is Earth...Heaven???
LOL. mee do you think that this verse is literal!!!
"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
"Will draw all men to myself"
LOL...mee, and where do you think God's Heaven is??? UP IN THE SKY!!!
You shouldn't tell jokes like that...
Do you know want to know who's heaven is up in the sky???
Man's heaven!!! Please read my last post in the thread "Hell is a Hoax"
Regarding that verse above. Jesus meant He will be drawing (mind you He says ALL MEN!!) to himself IN SPIRIT!!! LOOK!!
"No one can come to Me if ever the Father Who sends Me should not be drawing him" (John 6:44).
Well, mee is this verse mentioning MAN'S heaven?? Well??
YOu honestly think God's heaven is up in the sky!!! When Jesus says "I am lifted up from the earth"
What "earth"?? Do you think He is talking about???
My friend you are lost...
You agruments are rendered useless if you read "that" post.
Now that I have read what you really believe, I have decided to stop wasting my time with posts...
Believe what you want to believe...
"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
"Will draw all men to myself"
LOL...mee, and where do you think God's Heaven is??? UP IN THE SKY!!!
This will be my last post in this forum (I will not look at you're reply)
Today mee, you (and everyone else reading) will learn a spiritual truth!!
First, just who was it that fell from heaven, and does the phrase "fallen from heaven" prove that this person had to have been in God’s throne room, or at least in interstellar space in order for him to "fall from heaven" therefore proving that this must be a spirit being only? No, of course not. It is a figure of speech. Here is proof from none other than Jesus:
"And you, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shall be thrust down [from heaven] to hell [Gk: hades]" (Luke 10:15).
So here we have a whole city being thrown down from heaven to hades, their grave. And so it is with the King of Babylon whose "pomp is brought down to the grave" (Isa. 14:11).
But that's not all...
God's Heaven is HIGHER than man or Satan's Heaven, look and you will see...
Satan is the god of this world (II Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MAN’S concept of heaven (Tower of Bable). The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:
"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"
Do you see? He began to thing it was all his work...He began to thing HE was a god...
The king of Babylon had a dream, and in the dream his kingdom was likened to a tree:
"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached into HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:11).
The kingdom of Babylon didn’t grow into GOD’S heaven, that’s for sure. No, Daniel identifies who the tree represents:
"The tree that you saw… It is YOU, O king, that are grown and become strong: for your greatness is grown, and reached unto HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:20a & 22).
The king of Babylon reached the same heaven that the city of Capernaum reached:
"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).
Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:
"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."
Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).
God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.
Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,
"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).
Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.
"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).
It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!
Believe it or not but the same can be said for free-will...
If we achieve something, we think it was US not God...
WE can save ourselves...
WE are good...
WE were once like God (in the garden), and...
WE have the answers (in our own mind), not God...
Get out of your own Heaven...
God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."
LOL ,yes i feel its good to believe what the bible REALLY teaches, thats why i am an old barnicle , and i am cemented good and proper to an accurate understanding of what the bible really teaches.
And i am sticking like cement to the channel that Jesus is giving understanding too. matthew 24;45-47
And even though those waves and under currents may try their best to separate mee from the rock that i am stuck too, that cement is very strong indeed
But Jehovah will become a secure height for me,
And my God the rock of my refuge.psalm 94;22
yes the bible does inform us about the new heavens (rulership)and the new earth (earthly society of people)2 peter 3;13
But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.2 peter 3;13
and then it will be back to paradise conditions on the planet, thats because Gods heavenly kingdom goverment will be the only goverment ruling ,and those other rulerships that were in the power of the wicked one (satan the devil) 1 JOHN 5;19 WILL BE NOMORE and the earthly society of people that are on the planet will all be willing to be subjects of that heavenly kingdom.
and it will be very good , and then when Jesus has accomplished everything that Jehovah has wanted , he will hand the kingdom back to his father JEHOVAH as 1 corinthians 15;24-28 informs us
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
the bible and what it REALLY teaches is good indeed
Yes the sea of mankind that is being tossed about will be no more .
Isaiah likened the wicked people of earth, the masses alienated from God, to “the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire.” (Isa 57:20)
At Revelation 17:1, 15 the “waters” on which Babylon the Great “sits” are said to mean “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.”
yes the sea of mankind that is in opposition to God and his purpose, will be no more
Daniel described four “beasts” that came up “out of the sea” and revealed these to be symbolic of political kings or kingdoms. (Da 7:2, 3, 17, 23)
and in revelation
John also saw in vision the time when there would be “a new heaven and a new earth” and when “the sea,” that is, the turbulent masses of people alienated from God, would be no more.—Re 21:1
and in revelation again
John spoke of a “wild beast ascending out of the sea,” that is, out of that vast portion of mankind that is estranged from God; and his mention, in symbolic language, of diadems and a throne again links the idea of a political organization with this beast out of “the sea.” (Re 13:1, 2)
yes as the bible informs us ,at the momment the whole world is in the power of the wicked one (satan the devil) ....1 john 5;19
but very shortly he is going to be put away for a 1000years, and then he will not be able to mislead anyone .
and then GODS HEAVENLY KINGDOM DANIEL 2;44 can rule without any interferance from him .
Yes ,when satan offered Jesus all those kingdoms and the glory of them ,Jesus did not say, they are not yours to offer them to me , thats because Jesus was very well aware that Satan had all the kingdoms of the world in his power .
and the reason Jesus did not get tempted to take up satans offer ,was because Jesus knew that at a future time he would recieve kingship inline with his fathers will in 1914 DANIEL 7;13-14
Jesus was sticking like cement to his fathers way of doing things ,and he wanted to do things inline with his fathers purpose.
very true indeed , he did didnt he .
but this is the true God isnt it
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
WHEN will the evildoer be in Paradise?
One’s understanding of Luke 23:43 is influenced by the punctuation used by the translator.
There was no punctuation in the original Greek Bible manuscripts.
The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XXIII, p. 16) states: “No attempt to punctuate is apparent in the earlier manuscripts and inscriptions of the Greeks.”
Not until the 9th century C.E. did such punctuation come into use.
Should Luke 23:43 read, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (RS), or should it be, ‘Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise’? The teachings of Christ and the rest of the Bible must be the basis for determination, and not a comma inserted in the text centuries after Jesus said those words.
The Emphasised Bible translated by J. B. Rotherham agrees with the punctuation in the New World Translation. In a footnote on Luke 23:43, German Bible translator L. Reinhardt says: The punctuation presently used [by most translators] in this verse is undoubtedly false and contradictory to the entire way of thinking of Christ and the evildoer. . . .
[Christ] certainly did not understand paradise to be a subdivision of the realm of the dead, but rather the restoration of a paradise on earth.
When would Jesus ‘get into his kingdom’ and fulfill his Father’s purpose to make the earth a paradise?
The book of Revelation, written about 63 years after the statements recorded at Luke 23:42, 43 were made, indicates that these events were still in the future.
The Bible does not agree with the view that Jesus and the evildoer went to heaven on the day that Jesus spoke to him.
Jesus had foretold that, after his being killed, he would not be raised up until the third day. (Luke 9:22)
During that three-day period he was not in heaven, because following his resurrection he told Mary Magdalene: “I have not yet ascended to the Father.” (John 20:17)
It was 40 days after Jesus’ resurrection that his disciples saw him lifted up from the earth and out of their sight as he began his ascent to heaven.—Acts 1:3, 6-11.
Your understanding of the word "judgment" in the scriptures is entirely wrong... Judgment is not the same "judging" that is used today.
When God judges the earth He doesn't decide who's a sinner and who isn't...
1) We are ALL sinners
2) God already knows!! Because God is the first cause, the first cause for everything!!!
The Authorized Version (of the Bible) reads, "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Gen.19:25). I agree that they expressed the sense correctly, yet I deplore the fact that, in doing so, they passed up a notable opportunity of anchoring the true meaning of the word judgment in our language. The Hebrew reads, "The Judge of the whole earth, is He not doing judgment" It is clear that anything wrong would not be judgment in Abraham's eyes. If anyone in Sodom should suffer unjustly that would not be judgment, and would be wrong. There is absolutely no injustice in divine judgment. It is rather, the righting of what is already wrong.
When God judges the earth it doesn't mean He will condemn some and save others. No, it means He will set it (the WHOLE world) right!!!
"…for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).
Have you not read about the sheep and the goats in matthew 25 ,those goats are known for their rebelliousness, and they will be cut-off from the blessing of everlasting life .
but the sheep who are known for helping christs brothers will go on into everlasting life .
Those goats do not become sheep they have already shown what sort they are, and when Jesus comes with the holy angels to judge the inhabited earth , it will be easy for Jesus to know who they are , because past actions will make it clear to see .
and he can also read hearts which only Jehovah and Jesus can do .
Soon, though, Jesus will arrive “in his glory, and all the angels with him” in order to judge mankind as a whole. (Matthew 25:31)
At that time, he will reveal himself in all his magnificent glory and give to “each one” just recompense for his or her behavior.
Sheeplike ones will inherit everlasting life in the Kingdom prepared for them, and goatlike ones will depart into “everlasting cutting-off.” What a splendid conclusion that will be Matthew 25:34, 41, 46; Mark 8:38; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.
the parable points to the future when the Son of man will come in his glory. He will sit down to judge people then living.
His judgment will be based on what they have manifested themselves to be.
At that time “the distinction between a righteous one and a wicked one” will have been clearly established. (Malachi 3:18)
Jesus willl render JUST decisions based on what has become evident about individuals.—See also 2 Corinthians 5:10.
This is correct mee, but the "everlasting" is incorrect!!! This is only for an age!! Not forever!!!
Where does it say those Goats will not become sheep???
What happens to the goats, let's read shall we...
"Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers..." (Matt. 25:41)
Notice I highlighted "fire"....
The "fire" is God...
"for also our God [is] a consuming fire." (Heb.12:29)
First let's see what the fire is all about...
"Now if any man build upon this [spiritual] foundation [Christ] gold, silver, precious stones [godly character traits], wood, hay, stubble [carnal character traits]; Every man’s work [thoughts, words, and deeds] shall be made manifest [become known, come to light]: for the day shall declare it [make it evident], because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:12-13).
Ok, now for the saints...
"...If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."
Now let's see what happens when the Goats go to the fire...
"...If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13-15).
Here is your revelation mee!!! Look again!!!
"...HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE"
So sorry to dissappoint you mee, but you're not the special one...
did i say i was
Concerning Jehovah, it can rightly be said: “All his ways are justice.”
This is where we have diagreement mee...
The word "everlasting" is unscriptual. You didn't read my last thread "Three Festivals and salvation for all" did you??
You fail to read other verses that confirm this...
First doesn't God save all men??? Don't ask me, look for yourslef...
"The Lamb of God, which takes away the SIN OF THE WORLD" (John 1:29).
Did you just read that...The Lamb of God doesn't take take away the sins of Jehova Witnesses, but rather "OF THE WORLD".
"…we trust in the Living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially [not exclusively JW's] of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).
"Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name [that name is JESUS] under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved" (Acts 4:12).
again, and more importantly...
"For even as, in Adam, ALL are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified" (I Cor. 15:22)
No you didn't....Neither should you...
Niether John.15:20 or James.1:2-3 mention fire. The verse I gave you was describing "judgment" concerning the time of the resurrection of the dead NOT throughout life...
Your just trying to twist the truth mee...
Introducing Jesus to his disciples, John declared:
“See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!”—John 1:29.
That was indeed good news, for John was, in effect, pointing out to all people the way to life and happiness—Jesus, the one who “takes away the sin of the world.”
As descendants of Adam and Eve, all humans are born under the tyranny of sin and death. Romans 5:19 explains: “Just as through the disobedience of the one man [Adam] many were constituted sinners, likewise also through the obedience of the one person [Jesus] many will be constituted righteous.” Jesus, like a sacrificial lamb, was to ‘take sin away’ and bring about a reversal of the sad state of human affairs.
“The wages sin pays is death,” the Bible explains, “but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.”—Romans 6:23.
As a perfect man—in fact, the greatest man who ever lived—Jesus took up preaching the good news.
The Bible account at Mark 1:14, 15 tells us: “Now after John was put under arrest Jesus went into Galilee, preaching the good news of God and saying: ‘The appointed time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has drawn near. BE REPENTANT you people, and have faith in the good news.’”
Those who RESPONDED to Jesus’ message and exercised faith in the good news were highly blessed.
John 1:12 says: “As many as did receive [Jesus], to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name.” Being children, or sons, of God, they were in line to receive the reward of everlasting life.
1 John 2:25.
But the privilege of receiving Kingdom blessings was not limited to people in the first century.
As mentioned earlier, the good news of God’s Kingdom is being proclaimed and taught in all the inhabited earth today.
So Kingdom blessings are still available.
BUT ITS ALL ABOUT RESPONDING AND REPENTANCE
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