Extraordinary!

[Operacast]

Well?

Page 1
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Page 2
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Page 3
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Operacast

 

[wil]

Thoughts?

Not extraordinary, but extra ordinary political double speak. Long on words short on substance. He's a great orator, he's got wonderful speach writers and he can stir a crowd.

I started out listening to him on the radio but switched over to the oral arguments in the supreme court on the hand gun ban in DC.

 

[Paladin]

Not extraordinary, but extra ordinary political double speak. Long on words short on substance. He's a great orator, he's got wonderful speach writers and he can stir a crowd.

I started out listening to him on the radio but switched over to the oral arguments in the supreme court on the hand gun ban in DC.

So what would have made this a substantive speech for you Wil?

 

[wil]

So what would have made this a substantive speech for you Wil?

I personally am in favor of identifying symptom, investigating problem, exploring solutions, looking at cost of status quo, cost of repair, benefit to society, and making a proposal to move forward.

I equate his indicating that he sat there for 20 years and never heard the right reverend speak that way is akin to Clinton telling us he didn't inhale. They either think we are stupid, or they are liars, and willing to do whatever it takes to get elected. The thought that we don't understand because he is preaching the way an African American preacher preaches to African Americans is confusing to me. My preacher is black, 60% of our congregation is black. I've been in all black churches (except for a few of us). I've not heard anything like it from the pulpit.

The more I hear of Obama, the more I see him as a politician, plane and simple.

My perfect candidate as I indicated before would be a merger between Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nader.

Although I may vote for Obama as he may just wake up this nation to all our latent racism, sexism, and caste issues. Not in a good way, but air our dirty laundry in the streets and allow us to face it.

 

[Pathless]

Well?

Page 1
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Page 2
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Page 3
Transcript of Obama's speech on race - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Operacast

That's a good speech. I'm glad he didn't stop here:

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

Because I think that that's a reactionary view to his current political situation, and is also a distorted view, and dismissive in its own way.

I'm glad he went places like this:

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

Hopefully this can be the beginning of a more honest consideration of America's legacy of racism and inequality. For a long time, it's been an issue that hasn't been breached in "polite company," as Obama puts it. It's one of those things that makes people extremely uncomfortable and creates awkward silences, cast-down eyes. It wouldn't hurt to engage in difficult conversations like this. If we don't, certainly nothing will change.

 

[seattlegal]

Hopefully this can be the beginning of a more honest consideration of America's legacy of racism and inequality. For a long time, it's been an issue that hasn't been breached in "polite company," as Obama puts it. It's one of those things that makes people extremely uncomfortable and creates awkward silences, cast-down eyes. It wouldn't hurt to engage in difficult conversations like this. If we don't, certainly nothing will change.

I agree that a dialogue is needed. There has to be some way to disspell the racist notion that only white people can be racist.

 

[Netti-Netti]

I agree that a dialogue is needed. There has to be some way to disspell the racist notion that only white people can be racist.

I totally expect black people to fear or distrust whites. I don't think that's a racist notion though. More like social realism.

Black and white racism are comparable only in a broad sense. They are certainly not parallel in scope and scale. I think they're also different in terms of the underlying dynamic. Black prejudice toward whites is largely reactive and context-dependent, being rooted in relative deprivation and very real socioeconomic conditions that involve stratification. White prejudice toward blacks might be predicated almost entirely on self-serving attitudes - like fear of crime, fear property values will drop if blacks move into the neighborhood, etc.

As for scope and scale, I would say that black prejudice is largely in the form of individual discrimination. In contrast, white racism is much more systemic institutionalized. Whites are after all the dominant population (as yet; this could change), which means they are able to implement a self-serving, highly organized and largely premeditated system of discrimination. Even now, there are many US companies and organizations that have no black employees. The institutionalized system of discrimination against blacks restricts their socioeconomic opportunities, which in turn has real consequences in terms of quality of life, health, and longevity.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Netti..

To say that our ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists is totally false. Thankfully like in most communities they are a minority. But the one thing you can never do for racists, regardless of their race, is apologise for them, we need Zero Tolerance of any race hate in every community. Making excuses for one group only serves to perpetuate all forms.


Tao

 

[Netti-Netti]

Greetings Tao Equus.

To say that our ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists is totally false.

I agree.

Thankfully like in most communities they are a minority. But the one thing you can never do for racists, regardless of their race, is apologise for them, we need Zero Tolerance of any race hate in every community. Making excuses for one group only serves to perpetuate all forms.

You focus on hate. I would focus on the distress people experience as far as a sense of inferiority, helplessness, and hopelessness. One would expect attitudes of distrust, anxiety, and discomfort among blacks in the US who are generally characterized by high poverty and crime rates, high rates of mental illness, poor nutrition, inadequate medical care for almost any disorder, and short lifespans. I call it the epidemiology of racism. I thought that was an original. It turns out someone at the Harvard School of Public Health was slinging the term around recently. Oh well.

At any rate, to restate my previous position. I don't recall anyone saying that only white people can be racist. However, I think it would be fair to say that the racism of a majority group is more likely to be virulent because the majority group's racist attitudes are more likely to translate into overt institutional forms of discrimination (e.g., differential educational opportunities and hiring practices, social isolation, etc.).

I didn't say ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists. I said that the racist attitudes of majorities and minorities have different consequences. AfroAmericans are not in control of the US educational system. Nor are they in control of US corporate culture. As a result, AfroAmericans are simply not in a position to impose on whites the institutional forms of racism that whites impose on minorities.

Likewise, as I said before, minority and majority groups would be expected to have different kinds of racist views because the tend to have world views that arise from a totally different set of psychosocial experiences.

 

[Pathless]

At any rate, to restate my previous position. I don't recall anyone saying that only white people can be racist. However, I think it would be fair to say that the racism of a majority group is more likely to be virulent because the majority group's racist attitudes are more likely to translate into overt institutional forms of discrimination (e.g., differential educational opportunities and hiring practices, social isolation, etc.).

I didn't say ethnic minorities do not have their fair share of racists. I said that the racist attitudes of majorities and minorities have different consequences. AfroAmericans are not in control of the US educational system. Not are they in control of US corporate culture. As a result, the AfroAmericans are simply not in a position to impose on whites the forms of institutional forms of racism that whites impose on minorities.

Likewise, as I said before, minority and majority groups would be expected to have different kinds of racist views because the tend to have world views that arise from a totally different set of psychosocial experiences.

Well said.

It amazes me, in a way, that Reverend Wright's scrutinized sermons have been so controversial and stirred up such debate. I thought it was fairly obvious that racism has been and continues to be, in more subtle and refined forms, endemic in the United States. We are a nation built by slaves! The descendents of those same slaves are still fighting to this day to be treated with respect and dignity in a culture that refuses to engage in meaningful public conversation about the reality and horror of slavery and the Jim Crow south. There's this ridiculous pervasive ideology in mainstream America that racism is over, that African Americans' struggles for civil rights magically ended with the work of Martin Luther King, Jr--or to hear Hilary Clinton tell it, Lyndon Johnson.

I grew up in the deep south. Not the deepest south possible, which is probably Alabama--but South Carolina, the state that contains the port of Charleston, the port where I believe every black slave that came to America passed through. I could be wrong, but certainly I am not wrong in stating that Charleston, and South Carolina as a whole, and the south as a whole, and the entire eastern seaboard, for that matter, was built by slaves--black and white, for sure, but black slaves suffered a unique strain of cruelty and inhumanity. They were forcibly taken from Africa, crammed into the bowels of ships, chained with no room to even turn around, made to live for months in their own piss and ****. The majority of these Africans died on the voyage over.

This is the legacy of white-on-black racism in this country. When I was growing up, attending public school in South Carolina in the '80s and '90s, the racism was thick. It saturates everything there. When I flew into Charlotte, North Carolina the first time after moving out west, I was assailed with the tangible, palpable matrix of inequality that everyone was swimming in. The vast majority of the workers at the airport--from security to fast food servers--were black, and many of them were quite young. In contrast, I saw the all-too familiar sight of a business-suited white man, clearly entitled, clearly priveleged, walking around as if there was no problem.

Still, there seem to be some of my white brothers and sisters who think that racism is not a problem in America--or that it is a problem, but overblown when addressed by African Americans.

...

I have to cut this short; although I'd like to follow these thoughts further, wage work calls.

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

wow..

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I'm skeptical of politics and politicians. I've been skeptical of Obama and I still am. Regardless the messenger, though, the content of the speech was ever so timely. It's about time we had an honest dialog about race in this country. I appreciate the acknowledgment of the truth about white and black anger and resentment in historical perspective. Having read the Reverend Wright's remarks I have to say that I don't much disagree with his analysis. This is the painful truth. Compare that with Pastor Hagee's outlook and I ask you honestly: who's the nut and who speaks the truth?

Chris

 

[Pathless]

wow..

Yes, you've now said that in a couple of related threads recently. Any other observations? Thoughts? I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on these events.

 

[seattlegal]

Well said.

It amazes me, in a way, that Reverend Wright's scrutinized sermons have been so controversial and stirred up such debate. I thought it was fairly obvious that racism has been and continues to be, in more subtle and refined forms, endemic in the United States. We are a nation built by slaves! The descendents of those same slaves are still fighting to this day to be treated with respect and dignity in a culture that refuses to engage in meaningful public conversation about the reality and horror of slavery and the Jim Crow south. There's this ridiculous pervasive ideology in mainstream America that racism is over, that African Americans' struggles for civil rights magically ended with the work of Martin Luther King, Jr--or to hear Hilary Clinton tell it, Lyndon Johnson.

I grew up in the deep south. Not the deepest south possible, which is probably Alabama--but South Carolina, the state that contains the port of Charleston, the port where I believe every black slave that came to America passed through. I could be wrong, but certainly I am not wrong in stating that Charleston, and South Carolina as a whole, and the south as a whole, and the entire eastern seaboard, for that matter, was built by slaves--black and white, for sure, but black slaves suffered a unique strain of cruelty and inhumanity. They were forcibly taken from Africa, crammed into the bowels of ships, chained with no room to even turn around, made to live for months in their own piss and ****. The majority of these Africans died on the voyage over.

This is the legacy of white-on-black racism in this country. When I was growing up, attending public school in South Carolina in the '80s and '90s, the racism was thick. It saturates everything there. When I flew into Charlotte, North Carolina the first time after moving out west, I was assailed with the tangible, palpable matrix of inequality that everyone was swimming in. The vast majority of the workers at the airport--from security to fast food servers--were black, and many of them were quite young. In contrast, I saw the all-too familiar sight of a business-suited white man, clearly entitled, clearly priveleged, walking around as if there was no problem.

Still, there seem to be some of my white brothers and sisters who think that racism is not a problem in America--or that it is a problem, but overblown when addressed by African Americans.

...

I have to cut this short; although I'd like to follow these thoughts further, wage work calls.

Is racism a collective or an individual phenomenon, or both? Are individuals compelled to participate in the collective aspects of racism? Is it fair to call individuals who choose to opt out of collectivist racist views "a traitor to their race?" When it comes down to solving racism, is change most effective and long lasting when made on the collective level, or on the individual level?

These are the questions that most need to be addressed if we expect to make any progress in this area. Avoiding these questions will only allow society to be manipulated by those wielding the "race card." I would say that change that lasts can only be achieved on the individual level, imo.

 

[Pathless]

Is racism a collective or an individual phenomenon, or both? Are individuals compelled to participate in the collective aspects of racism? Is it fair to call individuals who choose to opt out of collectivist racist views "a traitor to their race?" When it comes down to solving racism, is change most effective and long lasting when made on the collective level, or on the individual level?

These are the questions that most need to be addressed if we expect to make any progress in this area. Avoiding these questions will only allow society to be manipulated by those wielding the "race card." I would say that change that lasts can only be achieved on the individual level, imo.

Racism is both a collective and individual phenomenon. Individuals who are born into racist society, who are raised and educated within a racist society, are indeed compelled to participate in and negotiate with the collective aspects of racism, whether willingly or unwillingly. In childhood, they immediately face a struggle that is effectively hidden from them. Racism is so endemic and insinuated in American culture that it must be first uncovered and recognized, and then unlearned. Racism is a reality that must either be accepted complacently or dealt with and navigated, and the social reality of racism can be overwhelming for individuals and minority groups.

Lasting change must be both individual and collective. As individuals, we must not only change our own programmed racist attitudes and behaviors by recognizing and resistng those attitudes and behaviors; we must also promote a more healthy and respectful collective climate.

 

[Pathless]

I would add that since the white cultures in America seem to be in varying degrees of denial about the deep roots and pervasiveness of racism in this country, and often unaware of the privileges that come with simply having white skin, we must be particularly observant and vigilant to our own assumptions and biases about race. One of the most fallacious popular beliefs is that with the civil rights gains of the '50s and '60s, racism has mostly disappeared, and African Americans as well as other minorities have equal opportunities on the level of white-skinned people. Racism still exists, and non-white people in this country are at significant handicaps in navigating the dominantly white culture. While it may be true that many of the more blatant racists attitudes and practices have disappeared, white racism towards blacks and other minorities is still pervasive, if somehow more subtle.

 

[Pathless]

From commentary by editorial board members of The Black Commentator:

For a mainstream politician running for the Presidency, and particularly for an African American running for the Presidency, this was a critical speech to give. It was essential that he not walk away from, or disown Rev. Wright. At the same time, when we live in a society that is so much in denial of the actual conditions of the oppressed both inside and outside our borders; that has come to accept torture; that often cannot comprehend the tragedy facing the Palestinians; that was angry about, yet threw up its hands in the face of the Katrina disaster (and the government's lack of response); that witnesses major banks and corporations disembowel communities and face few consequences, the anger that was displayed by Rev. Wright should not have surprised anyone. It is both anger AND hope that are critical for a genuine movement that wishes to transform this country. The anger of a Rev. Wright is not a throw-back, but is a reality check.

As poverty has spread to broader and broader sections of our society, there has been a steady push to put in place a system of laws to contain not African Americans, but the impoverished. Managing and controlling the new class of dispossessed is the new paradigm of policing and incarceration. The main agenda for global corporations is to continue to automate production, eliminate jobs, lower wages and cut benefits, so poverty and homelessness will continue to grow. This has already made our nation the world’s leading prison nation. This travesty is driven by the market economy and global capitalism more than racism.

...

And America certainly has changed, in that it has allowed a certain number of African Americans, like our present secretary of state, and our former secretary of state, and Mr. Obama, among others, to join the privileged class. But the profound mistake of Mr. Obama’s speeches is that he speaks as if our economic system isn’t static in its irrepressible need to push a high proportion of its people to the economic bottom, where they can be exploited cheaply for whatever contributions they can make, and pushed out of the economic system entirely – discarded, thrown away – if they cannot be exploited further.

I welcome Obama's principled and eloquent response to the "Rev. Wright" controversy. This provided an unprecedented teaching moment for the country, an opportunity for him to address directly the issues of racism in the American polity, and, more subtley, the polarizing tactics of the corporate media. While I do not share his opinion that Rev. Wright's views are "distorted", I think he handled the question of their relationship - and by extension his relationship with the Black community - with integrity. It is unfortunate that, as Blackness is apparently equated with lack of patriotism, he felt it necessary to reaffirm his committment to the fight against "radical Islam." On the whole, however, it was a brilliant exercise of statesmanship.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Will the Republican candidate John McCain have to deliver a speech of explanation and apology for the endorsement he sought from Rev. John Hegee, who has made a career denouncing certain groups of Americans?
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Would Sen. Obama have had to distance himself from his pastor of 20 years, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright if he were not an African American running for the presidency?[/FONT][/FONT]

Members of the conservative punditoracy, the talking heads who are dependent upon the 24-hour news cycle, the 30-second sound byte and the sensationalism of reality-show faux-journalism, never have visited a Black church. Rather than sensitize themselves to the inconvenient realities of racism, they, in their discomfort and false outrage, demanded Dr. Wright’s head on a platter. The senator refused to participate in the Willie Hortonization of Rev. Wright, or the demonization of a rich legacy of political expression in the Black church.

Obama redirected the current discussion away from the unhelpful distractions, the scapegoating and the smokescreens, and towards the larger fundamentals of inequality and power in America. He addressed the legacy of oppression that people of color face, and the economic deprivation that many whites experience, all against the backdrop of corporate greed and a devotion to business as usual among the political elites. This is just the beginning of a conversation that is needed in this country. Obama is challenging the people to take advantage of a window of opportunity, and to try a refreshingly new and different approach to this American experiment.

The measure of Obama’s success will be determined by his ability to create, build and galvanize a grassroots mass movement that links anti-racism to the practical tasks of governing. Such a movement will have to bypass the media, pundits, and politicians who manufacture consent that prevents the majority of Euro-Americans from acting in their own interests.

These are only excerpts. Read the entire commentary at:

The Black Commentator - Cover Story: Obama Race Speech Analysis By BlackCommentator.com Editorial Board Members

 

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Yes, you've now said that in a couple of related threads recently. Any other observations? Thoughts? I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on these events.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]I don't see much future for the Americans. Everything about the behavior of the American society reveals that it's half judaized, and the other half is negrified. How can one expect a state like that to hold together?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Adolf Hitler[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Is it a progress if a cannibal uses knife and fork? [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Stanislaw Jerzy Lec[/FONT][/SIZE]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Martin Luther King, Jr.[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]I hate to spread rumours. But what else one can do with them?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Amanda Lear[/SIZE][/FONT]


There are no nations! There is only humanity. And if we don't come to know that soon, there will be no nations, because there will be no humanity.
[SIZE=+1]Isaac Asimov[/SIZE]


Americans always try to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Winston Churchill[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]There never was a good war, or a bad peace.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Benjamin Franklin[/FONT][/SIZE]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Love of one's country recognizes no frontiers... of other countries. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Stanislaw Jerzy Lec[/FONT][/SIZE]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Kenyan proverb[/SIZE][/FONT]



Humans sheesh..
Yo-Eleven-11
Thats my observation.


Think about it.

 

[Pathless]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]I don't see much future for the Americans. Everything about the behavior of the American society reveals that it's half judaized, and the other half is negrified. How can one expect a state like that to hold together?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Adolf Hitler[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Is it a progress if a cannibal uses knife and fork? [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Stanislaw Jerzy Lec[/FONT][/SIZE]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Martin Luther King, Jr.[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]I hate to spread rumours. But what else one can do with them?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Amanda Lear[/SIZE][/FONT]


There are no nations! There is only humanity. And if we don't come to know that soon, there will be no nations, because there will be no humanity.
[SIZE=+1]Isaac Asimov[/SIZE]


Americans always try to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Winston Churchill[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]There never was a good war, or a bad peace.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Benjamin Franklin[/FONT][/SIZE]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Love of one's country recognizes no frontiers... of other countries. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Stanislaw Jerzy Lec[/FONT][/SIZE]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][SIZE=+1]Kenyan proverb[/SIZE][/FONT]



Humans sheesh..
Yo-Eleven-11
Thats my observation.


Think about it.

What, that's it? Come on, man. You can do better than that.

 

[Pathless]

Relevant quick online activity from Southern Poverty Law Center:

Southern Poverty Law Center : Stand Strong Against Hate

Racism is a serious problem in America. We've identified 888 organized hate groups — a staggering 48% increase since 2000.

This increase in the number of hate groups — white supremacists, neo-Nazis, anti-immigrant extremists, anti-gay groups and others — is an alarming trend.

As the ranks of hate swell, people of goodwill must stand up and be counted.

Add yourself to our map as a voice for tolerance. Join people across the nation who are standing strong against the hate, racism, and intolerance infecting our communities, schools and political debate.
​