Why do you believe in YOUR religion

Bandit said:
Freedom from religion is way more awesome & beautiful than any freedom of religion will ever know.
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The truth sets us free:)
And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: "If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.

John 8;31-32
 
Nick_A said:
I can't teach you. I have enough trouble with it myself.

The difference between a pianist and a piano player and a pianist is that the Pianist is master of his instrument while the piano player is very limited in his abilities.

A MAN is master of himself while men are reactive creatures. A man must be able "to be" master of himself before becoming a MAN. But we don't know what this means since we are so caught up with being men.

The first thing to experience is that we are not masters of ourselves and rather creatures of conditioned reaction so if we are honest, we admit that we are idiots in comparison to our conscious potential. Before becoming a MAN you must first experience and verify that you are an idiot.
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LOL.... Yeah this is where I sign off this one :rolleyes:
 
Quahom1 said:
Is it? Or is it to be unshackled from the morals that such religious adherences force upon one?

Anarchist's Guide to God? That would be an interesting book to read indeed...no base, no plot line, no conclusion, in fact, no substance.

Chris, God is an absolute, freedom from God's ways is suicide...eventually.
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If God is all pervasive, then It's natural religion is everywhere apparent and needs no reinforcement.

Chris
 
Bandit said:
Indeed:) and free from the shackles of the traditions of men. Free to go as deep as one chooses into God without the limitations of finite minds creating dead ends & saying you are not allowed. Free to worship God instead of a religion.
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Or, free to use religion as a means without making an idol of it. Or, free to enjoy spirituality without having to participate in the factionalizing that makes religion a vehicle for establishing who is "us" versus "them."

Chris
 
Bandit said:
Indeed:) and free from the shackles of the traditions of men. Free to go as deep as one chooses into God without the limitations of finite minds creating dead ends & saying you are not allowed. Free to worship God instead of a religion.
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I'd say there is some exploring not worth the trip: drugs, murder, rape, theft... but if you still insist on that absolute freedom to explore unimpeded then I guess you would gain that knowledge.
 
Nick_A said:
There is altuism and there is human nature.
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As you have noted a person can hold different values which alters the viewpoint of the game. Like the motive, the thoughts, the reasoning, or the dependence. Gambling or alcohol comes to mind... the motive has a lot to do with it. They become a trap for some and yet not for others. In that moment Aron Nimzovich sounds like he had a pride over his chess record or his ability to the exclusion of his opponent.
 
cyberpi said:
I'd say there is some exploring not worth the trip: drugs, murder, rape, theft... but if you still insist on that absolute freedom to explore unimpeded then I guess you would gain that knowledge.
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What does that have to do with being free from institutionalized religion?

There are drugs, murder, rape, theft, liars & cheating on your spouse that runs rampid in every religious institution. I can be free from religion without exploring all of that.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
What is "worship?" What does it mean to worship?

Chris
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for me it starts with repentence, forgiveness & those types of things that are true from within myself going outward to others and into what could be called supreme.

China Cat Sunflower said:
Or, free to use religion as a means without making an idol of it. Or, free to enjoy spirituality without having to participate in the factionalizing that makes religion a vehicle for establishing who is "us" versus "them."

Chris
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Nice.

Not enslaved by the fear of humans who feel they have no error in so much that if you look over there or join a different religion- you will be punished, outcast from this one and put to death.

Free from legalism.
 
path_of_one said:
For me, it is gratitude, and a turning toward- an embrace. Worship starts with thankfulness, then wonder, love, and beauty- losing myself...
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I have "gratitude, embrace, thankfulness, wonder, love and beauty - losing myself" in my own philosophical meander through life. But I have never felt inclined to worship it. It is natural to ritualise what makes you happy. I suppose the fundamental reason for this,as I see it in me at least, is the ambivalence of our physical universe. It does not distinguish between a destructive or creative event. There is only change. I find this comforting in itself. I am happy to witness a renewal that persists........but I see no point in worshipping that.

tao
 
WORSHIP The rendering of reverent honor or homage.


Jehovah God accepts only the worship of those who comport themselves in harmony with his will. (Mt 15:9; Mr 7:7)


 
Why worship? What do we gain and why would a divine being need it?

The problem is us and the solution begins with impartial efforts to "know thyself" rather than blind worship.
 
Nick,

It seems that some people need to worship a deity. Alas, you and I do not seem to fall into that cateogy. Those who wish to worship a deity, let them. Be glad they allow us to not worship a deity.

It all works out in the end.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
Nick,

It seems that some people need to worship a deity. Alas, you and I do not seem to fall into that cateogy. Those who wish to worship a deity, let them. Be glad they allow us to not worship a deity.

It all works out in the end.
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I agree. I don't attack others. The trouble is we know how it all works out in the end and this raises the question if this is all there is? Shakespeare described it well:

Shakespeare - All the world's a stage
 
Nick_A said:
Why worship? What do we gain and why would a divine being need it?

The problem is us and the solution begins with impartial efforts to "know thyself" rather than blind worship.
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You are mistaking "worship" (acknowledgement and appreciation of God) with religion (dutifully carrying out rituals and behaviors). Therein lies your error.

Second, we have had millenia to "fix" ourselves, and so far, we've simply become more effecient at the negative potential we have as opposed to the positive potential.

To "know thyself" is to recognize our limits, and potential, and I dare say, immaturaty as a sentient species...something man does not ever like doing individually, let alone as a collective.

Hence the need for "faith" in one greater than ourselves, and the need for "religion" as a discipline towards that "faith".

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...

v/r

Q
 
Q

You are mistaking "worship" (acknowledgement and appreciation of God) with religion (dutifully carrying out rituals and behaviors). Therein lies your error.

While I would accept your definition, it is not so common. Normally acknowledgement and practice are not separate. Consider the dictionary definition:

worship - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence

3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
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Second, we have had millenia to "fix" ourselves, and so far, we've simply become more effecient at the negative potential we have as opposed to the positive potential.

True and it raises the question as to why it is so. Why don't we learn by experience? The answer is the human condition but it is too insulting to consider.

To "know thyself" is to recognize our limits, and potential, and I dare say, immaturaty as a sentient species...something man does not ever like doing individually, let alone as a collective.

To "know thyself" is not introspection or analysis. It means simply to know thyself. It means to consciously and impartially experience oneself without concern for judgment.

Hence the need for "faith" in one greater than ourselves, and the need for "religion" as a discipline towards that "faith".

The question of faith is quite deep. Faith IN this or that is secular. It is an outward expression The Faith OF Christ is something different. It is an inner potential attribute of our being. It is something we have the potential for.

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...


It may be logical but if built on false premises it is invalid. The saving grace is awakening to the reality of the human condition and how to bring a chaotic state of inner plurality into an organized inner unity.

"May the outward and inward man be at one." Socrates
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As we are, we are incapable of such unity so we go the way described above by Shakespeare. However, the balanced inner Man that puts life into a conscious perspective and receives help from above may be capable of more and serving a conscious purpose more appropriate for Man.
 
Nick_A said:
Q

You are mistaking "worship" (acknowledgement and appreciation of God) with religion (dutifully carrying out rituals and behaviors). Therein lies your error.

While I would accept your definition, it is not so common. Normally acknowledgement and practice are not separate. Consider the dictionary definition:

worship - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary



Second, we have had millenia to "fix" ourselves, and so far, we've simply become more effecient at the negative potential we have as opposed to the positive potential.

True and it raises the question as to why it is so. Why don't we learn by experience? The answer is the human condition but it is too insulting to consider.

To "know thyself" is to recognize our limits, and potential, and I dare say, immaturaty as a sentient species...something man does not ever like doing individually, let alone as a collective.

To "know thyself" is not introspection or analysis. It means simply to know thyself. It means to consciously and impartially experience oneself without concern for judgment.

Hence the need for "faith" in one greater than ourselves, and the need for "religion" as a discipline towards that "faith".

The question of faith is quite deep. Faith IN this or that is secular. It is an outward expression The Faith OF Christ is something different. It is an inner potential attribute of our being. It is something we have the potential for.

In that respect alone, man is quite logical in his endeavors, to prevent his own destruction. But that is the only saving grace he has...


It may be logical but if built on false premises it is invalid. The saving grace is awakening to the reality of the human condition and how to bring a chaotic state of inner plurality into an organized inner unity.



As we are, we are incapable of such unity so we go the way described above by Shakespeare. However, the balanced inner Man that puts life into a conscious perspective and receives help from above may be capable of more and serving a conscious purpose more appropriate for Man.
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Argue with someone else, not me...I know what I know, and am sorry you don't know the same thing. But please, continue with your debate and observations...

That is why you are here. I on the other hand, love watching you grow...

It's all good Nick.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Argue with someone else, not me...I know what I know, and am sorry you don't know the same thing. But please, continue with your debate and observations...

That is why you are here. I on the other hand, love watching you grow...

It's all good Nick.

v/r

Joshua
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You know what you know and sorry that I don't know the same. You must be a graduate of the King George school of right and wrong that now sees us as misguided rather than traitors. Well that's progress..

I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor. King George III
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The only thing growing is my midsection from eating cookies while I write. I don't know what is so good about that.

Well as long as the world still has good scotch and cute blondes, all is not lost.
 
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