Did God know Eve would eat from the tree of good and evil??
- Thread starter winner08
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The God of the Bible is not subject to temporal condition, He is outside time and space, as it were, so in God there's no future, no past ... so no surprises, as far as he is concerned ...
God 'knew' that she could choose to eat, or not to eat ... but the choice is hers to make, and if and when she makes that choice, certain consequences would follow, as she was warned.
Do I know my kids will disobey me? I would like to think not, but I know they can, why? Because I have raised them to be free ... and so they might, and on occasion, they have ...
Do I have contingencies in place for if and when they do? Yes. I'd an irresponsible parent if I didn't ... that's not to say they've never taken me by surprise, but hey, I'm only human.
God is more than human, and we should be careful not to assume God thinks as we do, or that we think as God does ... that's anthropomorphisation, and can easily lead one up a blind alley.
To get to grips with that you'd have to do an in-depth study of symbology.
Thomas
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To set rules? To have sovereignty? Say I had you over my house, you would be a welcome guest... But there would be limits... You wouldn't waltz around like you own my home would you? There are certain limits and lines that cannot be broken or crossed. YHWH placed the tree to place a limit/rule/law/line over Adam and Eve. If he had'nt there would be no respect and symbol of sovereignty....
It wasn't to tempt them, it wasn't to make them disobey him, it was there to show he may have given them the world, but it was only theres to live in, it still belonged to him and his laws rules were to be above anything man did.. In my opinion.
You said God knew that they could disobey. are you saying that God didn't know??
Wow Alex ,I never heard it put that way before. So God need to keep them in check, show them who was the boss. is that about right?
Darren
17th Angel
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No.
Look at it another way. If God wanted, he could make sure man could not disobey, by creating man without free will and a rational, reasoning nature — but then man would not be a human being ...
Thomas
Hi Darren —
I would say no ... but the Fathers believed He made man spiritually immature, which is a view I tend to like. Man was on the road to maturity, and fell before he reached the fullness of his own being.
Thomas
Good question ...
I would say no ... but the Fathers believed He made man spiritually immature, which is a view I tend to like. Man was on the road to maturity, and fell before he reached the fullness of his own being.
Yes. How can he not, if past, present and future are all one to Him?
Yes ... always did ... it's just we scuppered the plan before it really got going... so Plan B kicked in ...
Thomas
M
mee
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The tree of knowledge was a literal tree. However, it represented God’s right as Ruler to decide what is good and bad for his human creation.
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
Darren,
If you are interested in a non-Abrahamic interpretaion of Genesis, let's start a thread in the Comparative Studies Section. (I do not put non-Christian comments in a Christian thread.)
If you are interested in a non-Abrahamic interpretaion of Genesis, let's start a thread in the Comparative Studies Section. (I do not put non-Christian comments in a Christian thread.)
Dream
Well-Known Member
Hi Winner08. I suggest that the garden of Eden represents the marriage of God to his people, and also represents married life in general. The serpent's head must be crushed, but a heel has to be bruised in order to do it meaning that forgiveness is required in any marriage to bring it to into its fullness. Forgiveness is the spiritual offspring (or lesson) of marriage and is the seed that destroys the serpent.
Satan, or 'Ha Satan' (also known as 'The Deceiver'), is the serpent in God's marriage to his people. I suggest tracing the words 'Beguiled' and 'Deceived' in Scripture to better grasp the garden of Eden. The serpent always claims to give freedom by making us like God but takes away freedom, taking us away from the one true God to idolatry, enslaved to men's opinions of God. This is what happens with the Baal of Peor, an early event in Israeli history. Baal represents the lies of the deceiver which ensnared Israel at that time and which persist against us to this day, although hopefully not after this day. Paul expounds on the mystery of marriage and this deceiver in Romans 7, and at the same time he discusses our divorce from a life by rules and marriage to life by the spirit.
Satan, or 'Ha Satan' (also known as 'The Deceiver'), is the serpent in God's marriage to his people. I suggest tracing the words 'Beguiled' and 'Deceived' in Scripture to better grasp the garden of Eden. The serpent always claims to give freedom by making us like God but takes away freedom, taking us away from the one true God to idolatry, enslaved to men's opinions of God. This is what happens with the Baal of Peor, an early event in Israeli history. Baal represents the lies of the deceiver which ensnared Israel at that time and which persist against us to this day, although hopefully not after this day. Paul expounds on the mystery of marriage and this deceiver in Romans 7, and at the same time he discusses our divorce from a life by rules and marriage to life by the spirit.
about God's marriage said:
It appears to me that one could construct the entire faith of Judaism from a study of marriage. Perhaps marriage is the example in nature that Paul was thinking about when he wrote "Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; "Romans 1:20about the serpent who beguiles said:
As it is a metaphor and a story the interpretations are limitless and mostly depend on your current situation and understanding (not ours) as the event is only valuable when it applies to you.
However, I do like the way BB put it elsewhere... You tell your kids, hey, look at all the toys, play with any of them, all of them, but don't touch the big red button. Go ahead, I'll be back later, play with everything, but don't touch that big red button.
However, I do like the way BB put it elsewhere... You tell your kids, hey, look at all the toys, play with any of them, all of them, but don't touch the big red button. Go ahead, I'll be back later, play with everything, but don't touch that big red button.
Something like that... And what would your take be on it?
Alex, my take on this subject is very differecnt than yours or Thomas'
At one time I was a believer in the Mainstream christian doctrine, but about 5or 6 mos. ago I found the truth about Gods words in the scriptures. I don't want to get into that part of my life it between The Lord ,The Teacher who teaches me, and there's me. Once I was intotroduced to this teacher I never look back, well that's not true, I do look back once in a while, just to see how really blind I was. How I swollow that Main stream chriatianity. I tell you guys when I read the teachers paper on ever subject in the Bible, be it hell or heaven, or free will or all will be saved , baptize, and circumsiced. I have a whole new out look on all of these subjects. Let me say I am much much more happier than I ever. I'm at such peace I wish All OF YOU COULD HAVE IT. You know how when you reading the Bible and you come to a part that just dosen't make since? You wonder how it fits together?
Like in Gen 1:26 Then God said."Let Us make man in Our image,according to Our Likeness.
Then in Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and BREATHED into his nostrils the BREATH of life.
Do you or anybody else scratch your head on these two scriptures. How in Gen 1:26 God made man.
Then I wonderd why does the Bible mention it again in Gen2:7? exceot this time God breathed life into the man he formed out of the dust of the ground BREATH LIFE.
The first account of God making man had no mention of the man being alive. In Gen 1:27 It contuines own with (So God created man in His Own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them). 28 Then God blessthem and God said to them, "be fruitful and multiply fill the earth. anyways no where does it show where God gives them Life.
Well it's thing like that that I have so much more clarity on, it is great.
thanks for your insight,
Darren
So Thomas just so I understand you. You said that God knows all Past, present and future and that we are not spiritually weak and that God does have a plan for us but it got messed up so God had to go to plan B.
OK if that's what you believe. each to his own and just for the recored this is just your opinion. Can you produce any scriptures on you thought. It is always better if one can back his ideas up. Since we are talking about God this woul be perfect to bring some scriptures up.
Thanks a million,
Darren
Darren
Hi Darren —
I thought yours was a a simple question, now it appears a set-up for your own agenda. As I see from a post there's little point in my outlining what you've already rejected, I'll waste no more of our time.
Thomas
I thought yours was a a simple question, now it appears a set-up for your own agenda. As I see from a post there's little point in my outlining what you've already rejected, I'll waste no more of our time.
Thomas
Namaste Darren,
What Thomas is getting at here is the nature of your original post. You had a question, you asked for our answers, and all the time you had your own answer.
We are fellow compatriots, seeking, discussing learning from each other. The relationships developed are based on trust, trust that you won't set us up for a fall. There are a couple of easy ways to pose your ideas. A. say what you think, and ask what we think of it (hint if you don't want answers or opposing viewpoints, there is no need to post, write a book, build a website or find your own pulpit). Or B. posit your original post just as it is, but add ~ I've got a couple ideas that I'd like to present, but I'd like to hear your viewpoints so my understandings don't taint your responses.
Of course you don't have to use the above methods or any sort of decorum, but being upfront goes a long way 'round these parts. Our words actions and methods help define us to others, you've just added to your definition.
There was no tree of "Good and Evil". But there is the tree of Knowledge, and the tree of Life. Two seperate trees. The serpent stated that the tree of knowledge would provide just that, knowledge, (including the knowledge of good and evil).
There was also the little part of being like God themselves, once they ate of it.
And Juan makes an interesting point elsewhere about what exactly it was the Eve gave into. The "fruit" may have had nothing to do with a tree at all...
Most likely a "metaphor" for something far liscidious...