Confession.

[17th Angel]

Just a curious question perhaps it will mutate and become a discussion between others...

Why do some denominations have a box where you confess, and then it is up to that human to say you have been forgiven.... That really isn't there place in my opinion to "play god"....

So I was curious to those denominations where they have these confessions, if you are apart of that church do you HAVE to use it? As for me if I wish to confess something, I will take it directly to YHWH, I need no middle man...

Ezra 10:11 And now make confession to YHWH...

 

[mee]

Just a curious question perhaps it will mutate and become a discussion between others...

Why do some denominations have a box where you confess, and then it is up to that human to say you have been forgiven.... That really isn't there place in my opinion to "play god"....

So I was curious to those denominations where they have these confessions, if you are apart of that church do you HAVE to use it? As for me if I wish to confess something, I will take it directly to YHWH, I need no middle man...

Ezra 10:11 And now make confession to YHWH...

a box? why?

 

[Thomas]

So I was curious to those denominations where they have these confessions, if you are apart of that church do you HAVE to use it? As for me if I wish to confess something, I will take it directly to YHWH, I need no middle man...

It's not to do with the idea of a middleman ... and many would argue that confessing before God is easy, confessing before one's neighbours is much harder.

One view is that Christianity was a community religion — a sin against your neighbour is an offence in the eyes of God, and a sin against God is an offence in the eyes of your neighbour.

Christianity is not a 'me and God' religion, it's a 'we and God' religion.

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Confession was a public practice, and was a 'rite of passage' within the community. Private confession is a later practice.

It's a lot easier to tell ourselves, "ah, he won't mind" than it is going and asking our neighbour if such is the case. Human nature, really.

And it's a chance to 'get it off your chest' ... why is therapy such a big industry in the West today? why counselling?

Thomas

 

[Netti-Netti]

And it's a chance to 'get it off your chest' ... why is therapy such a big industry in the West today? why counselling?

Yeh right, Thomas. Just say 10 Hail Marys and off you go, fully normalized.

 

[Dondi]

One ought to 'get it off their chest' by going to the one they have offended. Certainly, you can go to your pastor or priest, but that is more for counseling purposes. I think the Holy Spirit is sufficient in letting us know when we gone wrong, and give us guidance to rectify the problem, whether we are the offender (Matthew 5:23-24) or the one being offended (Matthew 18:15-17).

 

[17th Angel]

It's not to do with the idea of a middleman ... and many would argue that confessing before God is easy, confessing before one's neighbours is much harder.

One view is that Christianity was a community religion — a sin against your neighbour is an offence in the eyes of God, and a sin against God is an offence in the eyes of your neighbour.

Christianity is not a 'me and God' religion, it's a 'we and God' religion.

+++

Confession was a public practice, and was a 'rite of passage' within the community. Private confession is a later practice.

It's a lot easier to tell ourselves, "ah, he won't mind" than it is going and asking our neighbour if such is the case. Human nature, really.

And it's a chance to 'get it off your chest' ... why is therapy such a big industry in the West today? why counselling?

Thomas

You really think it is harder to confess to a person than it is (if you have full genuine belife) to confess to the almighty? Fair enough... The only way I could understand and agree is if that person is the one you have wronged... Now that can be hard.

But I see what your saying, thank you for sharing that post really.

Yeh right, Thomas. Just say 10 Hail Marys and off you go, fully normalized.

*giggles and softly slaps on shoulder* Oh you!

One ought to 'get it off their chest' by going to the one they have offended. Certainly, you can go to your pastor or priest, but that is more for counseling purposes. I think the Holy Spirit is sufficient in letting us know when we gone wrong, and give us guidance to rectify the problem, whether we are the offender (Matthew 5:23-24) or the one being offended (Matthew 18:15-17).

Aha, so that is to say you believe that YHWH is all the council one needs and is the one we really need to answer to? "surley the arm of YHWH isn't too short to save nor his ear too dull to hear." Isa 59:1

 

[Dream]

I think I agree with what Thomas was saying about community, etc. Here are some related scriptures.

Ephesians 5:21 Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Colossians 1:27-28 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we proclaim, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man mature in Christ.

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

Isaiah 33:24 And no inhabitant will say, "I am sick"; the people who dwell there will be forgiven their iniquity.

The reference to "I am sick" is about spiritual uncleanness, which is thought of as a type of leprousy. Also, the entirety of Isaiah 33 (not just verse 24) could be talking about Christ in you, depending upon your point of view.

 

[path_of_one]

I also agree that there is an issue of communal peace, which can be substantially furthered when people routinely confess wrongdoing to the people they wrong and ask for forgiveness, and those who are wronged can show forgiveness.

 

[Quahom1]

Just a curious question perhaps it will mutate and become a discussion between others...

Why do some denominations have a box where you confess, and then it is up to that human to say you have been forgiven.... That really isn't there place in my opinion to "play god"....

So I was curious to those denominations where they have these confessions, if you are apart of that church do you HAVE to use it? As for me if I wish to confess something, I will take it directly to YHWH, I need no middle man...

Ezra 10:11 And now make confession to YHWH...

I'm not getting into the history of confession, however, today it is because the "Vicar's representitive" is the ear of God (and a physical person that we can speak with), who will never bring the confession to the public. Indeed priests of late have gone to jail rather than expose what was confessed.

Sometimes we have to speak to "someone" corporial as opposed to the etheral. But the idea of the "vicar" is that God would speak through them or at least there is a God representitive to listen.

Another way of praying.

I will admit, I do not ken to confessing often to anyone, but there are times when I need to, and there is comfort in knowing there is an ear who will never let what I said, go past our communique, and the advice I'm given is usually priceless, and I take it to heart.

The "box" is simply for privacy. It also kills "gossip".

 

[Quahom1]

a box? why?

So prying ears can't hear...

 

[Francis king]

where two or more are gathered... I am there...

the idea of confession is... you 'fess up... in front of another, which makes it more real, and as any person (not only a priest) can hear confession... you don't need the box, in truth, but you do need another... to forgive you... on behalf of God, kinda...

that's my take on it...

 

[Thomas]

One ought to 'get it off their chest' by going to the one they have offended.

That's normally part of the deal.

I think the Holy Spirit is sufficient in letting us know when we gone wrong, and give us guidance to rectify the problem, whether we are the offender (Matthew 5:23-24) or the one being offended.

Sadly, my experience of the world is too often the voice we think is the Holy Spirit is none other than our own ... I think you're talking about conscience, not the Holy Spirit ...

In Early Christianity, it was a big deal. Pennance involved wearing sack-cloth and ashes, but there was even exile from the community, sometimes for years! Imagine your priest saying that today: "Go away for three years and think about ... then come back ... "
There's a test few would take to.

My mum once told me she went to the Cathedral Church here in London in her lunch hour (in her youth) and the priest hearing confession was from her home town in Ireland ... she was in there 20 minutes ... when she came out, she said people looked at her like she was a mass murderer ...

Thomas

 

[Dondi]

Aha, so that is to say you believe that YHWH is all the council one needs and is the one we really need to answer to? "surley the arm of YHWH isn't too short to save nor his ear too dull to hear." Isa 59:1

Well, ultimately, we will have to answer to God. After David commited adultery with Bathsheba, note his confession to God:

"Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest." - Psalm 51:1-4 {emphasis mine]

How odd that David isn't saying that he sinned against Bathsheba, or Nathan the Prophet, or the people of Israel with whom he has a moral obligation to be upstanding in his reign as King of Israel. His sin is against God and God only.

That is not to say that we shouldn't confess our faults toward one another, nor ask forgiveness, but ultimately God is our Judge, the One whom we have to do.

 

[Dondi]

Sadly, my experience of the world is too often the voice we think is the Holy Spirit is none other than our own ... I think you're talking about conscience, not the Holy Spirit ...

Perhaps, but it is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that strengthens our sense of conscience. He is the one who brings conviction. Certainly we can sear our conscience as a hot iron, and therefore numb ourselves to that voice, but when one is truly seeking God's restoration, He will surely let us know where we erred and convict us of a need to repent.

In Early Christianity, it was a big deal. Pennance involved wearing sack-cloth and ashes, but there was even exile from the community, sometimes for years! Imagine your priest saying that today: "Go away for three years and think about ... then come back ... "
There's a test few would take to.

I have a bit of trouble in having someone else telling what I need to do to repent. It is rather like my mother telling me I need to stand in the corner for three hours before I go back out and play. While the penance might make me think better before committing further infractions, it doesn't induce repentence in my heart. I have to have the godly sorrow that produces repentence.

My mum once told me she went to the Cathedral Church here in London in her lunch hour (in her youth) and the priest hearing confession was from her home town in Ireland ... she was in there 20 minutes ... when she came out, she said people looked at her like she was a mass murderer ...

Thomas

I'm not sure I understand the reaction. Did the people react that way because she was in the booth for so long, or was it a result of the countenance in her expression after she came out?

 

[Thomas]

Actually ... there is another dimension to this ...

Confession, or Reconcilliation, as it's called these days in Catholic circles, is a Sacrament, and thus there is the Charism of the Confessor.

St Padre Pio is perhaps the most famous case of recent years, although I believe hearing there is a priest alive in Switzerland today, but St John Mary Vianney, the Cure of Ars, is another. Here's a quick note:

Born 8 May 1786 in Dardilly (France) to a farming family, his ordination took much longer than usual because he had little education, was a poor student, and his Latin was terrible. He was assigned to a poorly-attended parish of Ars-sur-Formans, a tiny village near Lyons, presumably because there he was out of the way and if he wasn't up to much good, he couldn't do much harm.

It soon emerged however that he had the gifts of discernment spirits, of prophecy, of hidden knowledge, of seeing into souls, and the working miracles. Soon crowds came to hear him preach, and to make their reconciliation because of his reputation with penitents; by 1855 there were 20,000 pilgrims a year to Ars. He spent 40 years there as the parish priest, sleeping 2-3 hours a night.

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Padre Pio of Pietrelcina was another "apostle of the confessional." Like the Curé of Ars, Padre Pio spent over twelve hours per day in the confessional, often telling penitents in advance all the sins they had committed — he could read the soul.

Padre Pio was 'notorious' as a confessor who would 'brook no crapulence' and was not adverse to throwing people out of the confessional if their motives were insincere — he claimed hypocrisy was the worst sin affecting mankind — but as my own family has its miracle story at the hands of this saint, I'm something of a fan.

Thomas

 

[Francis king]

ur own family has it's miracle story at the hands of this saint... I would love u to tell us more about this, and not so I can slight u, simply as I am interested to hear ur story... if u do not or cannot share, that's okay... me is jus' curious...

 

[Mirko]

confession is wery useful
people can go and shoot everything out of themselves and most come out feeling lighter
also it is a way to assure the human is not alone with his sin, if he believes something to be a sin, but alovs for that sin to be shared and then ritually pardoned, lifting any potential weight of the individual

the middleman also assures the believed sinner is informed of his pardon, thus making confession a simple and effective ritual, easier and more efficient than talking to a hipotetical god that is then to be believed to forgive the sin or not, based on individual criteria
this way the forgiveness is certain, the individual is actually told by a representative of religious authority that his sins are forgiven, so there are no doubts, at least if the individual is a believer