Documentary: Religulous

[Pathless]

YouTube - Religulous Trailer - www.LennonAldort.com

I went to see this one Saturday night. Bill Maher is funny. The movie did make me laugh a lot, and I agree with Maher to a point. I think his agenda with this movie is a bit too dogmatic, though, especially seeing as how the film comes out of his own dislike, ridicule, and fear of dogmatic, fundamentalist religions. Religulous ends up being a practice in domination-style debate. There is little dialogue going on here between Maher and his interviewees, especially those who are Muslim.

I can understand and accept Maher's antagonism and aggressiveness towards Christians and Jews, since he himself was raised Catholic for a while, and since he is part Jewish. Yet he seemed softer towards and more willing to give breathing room to those Christians and Jews who were liberal in their beliefs, and more willing to engage in dialogue with most of his Christian and Jewish interviewees (with the notable exception of the rebel rabbi who met with Iran's Ahmeninajad) than he was towards Muslims.

I think that there is a bit of reactionary sentiment clouding Maher's agenda here. He was not raised in an environment where Islam was practiced or even really present, which is also true of many westerners. Yet he and many others in the west are willing to take a look at the Koran and boggle at mentions of "infidel" and "jihad" and come away with the conclusion that Islam is, without exception, a violent religion.

There is a bias here. If Maher and others were as hostile towards and illiterate about Christianity and Judaism as they are towards and about Islam, the bias would be gone. But they are not. Maher and those who share his perception, I believe, are either unwilling to learn about the varieties of practice within Islam, or simply do not want to engage in the kind of deep research and thinking that a complex subject like the history and interpretation of Islam calls for.

I myself am no Islamic scholar. I know next to nothing about the religion and its history. Therefore, I am not able to intelligently criticize it. If I were to criticize it with my present level of knowledge, I would be doing nothing more than exposing my own ignorance and unwillingness to learn.

...

And now, in the spirit of blasphemous humor that is Religulous, please enjoy this clip of George Carlin calling relgion bull****:

YouTube - George Carlin - Religion is bull****.

 

[Tao_Equus]

I myself am no Islamic scholar. I know next to nothing about the religion and its history. Therefore, I am not able to intelligently criticize it. If I were to criticize it with my present level of knowledge, I would be doing nothing more than exposing my own ignorance and unwillingness to learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

So what you are saying is that you do not think Islam to be a violent, supremacist religion. But you do not 'know' that it is not. Personally I never approached Islam with the pre-determined notion it was violent. rather I began to look at it because I was curious as to the power it seemed to have over the logical functions of its devotees. For in Islam, and in Islam alone, we are expected to swallow the idea that the Koran is the actual word of God and beyond all question. Every single word in it is incontrovertible and should be followed or eternal torment will result. But when you read the content, with mind to abrogation and the order in which the Koran itself demands to be understood there is no question it preaches nothing but hate against non-muslims. I did not expect to find this actually within the book itself. I thought that such hate to be the inevitable perversion of it by those who sought to hijack it power over people to their own ends. But no, it is in the book and has been in there from the beginning.
True many many muslims are unaware of the actual content themselves. But its scholars and devotees are well conversant with its agenda, its supremacist purpose. That it was written by an increasingly paranoid despot is patently obvious when you know the order in which it was written, not the order in which it is printed. You can actually watch the development of increasing paranoia, the development of a full blown psychosis by reading it in chronological order. This kind of paranoid powerlust is IMO favoured by those that also have such ambitions of power and is why muslim nations are the least democratic to be found, (yeh I know our democracies are shams too), and headed by very similar personalities to Muhamad.
So I think Islam is a violent religion, even if probably the majority of its worshipers are unaware of it.


tao

 

[wil]

Namaste Pathless,

(and tao, although I hesitate to respond to your post as it appears it would derail the discussion of the movie)

Bill Maher was always so abrasive to the guests that he disagreed with, and seemingly selected those he could berate at will, that I quit watching his TV shows. I'd like to see what he has done with this movie but it appears you've described pretty much what I suspected...so I'll wait and not support his cause.

 

[Bandit]

YouTube - Religulous Trailer - www.LennonAldort.com

I went to see this one Saturday night. Bill Maher is funny. The movie did make me laugh a lot, and I agree with Maher to a point. I think his agenda with this movie is a bit too dogmatic, though, especially seeing as how the film comes out of his own dislike, ridicule, and fear of dogmatic, fundamentalist religions.

I want to see this. If it is anything like the pentecostal scene in the Borat movie then i will like it because that scene speaks volumes of how fakey & pretentious people in religion really are. Though I feel Borat over stepped its boundaries of respect in other areas, it was no more or less lack of respect than what the religiulous people do. I do not see it as fear, rather just the opposite to have the balls to stand up to what he sees and I agree with him so far, at least in the trailer.

The dislike & ridicule has been earned.

Bill Maher was always so abrasive to the guests that he disagreed with, and seemingly selected those he could berate at will, that I quit watching his TV shows. I'd like to see what he has done with this movie but it appears you've described pretty much what I suspected...so I'll wait and not support his cause.

He is not any more abrasive or rude than most people in religion are.

I wish he was not like that in all things though I agree with much of his views on the bull crap and lies that religion has produced. I am glad there are people like him around to put a stop to those who think they can continue to silence everyone because they vehemently disagree or see humor in religulous superstitions. His obnoxious humor is no different than those who make fun of their own religions.

and he is right...we do not need 8 more years of Bush type of violent, lying christian leadership in the world. (I caught that in one interview which sold me)

So I think Islam is a violent religion, even if probably the majority of its worshipers are unaware of it.


tao

it isn't just islam as I am sure you know. you do not have to travel very far (like one click away) to see the same nasty violent hate and fear coming from people in judaism and christianity. iT is a bunch of phoney bones thinking they are fooling others hiding behind the religulous bathroom curtain. My hunch is the movie will portray things fairly accurately yet people wont be able to take it as the religiulous in general can't handle any kind of criticism.

as you put it, they are unaware as if they do not know any better. Perhaps that is what we will see in the movie.

 

[c0de]

@ Tao

But when you read the content, with mind to abrogation and the order in which the Koran itself demands to be understood there is no question it preaches nothing but hate against non-muslims.

"O mankind! [This includes all races and all nations] We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"


"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (The Noble Quran, 3:199)"


"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:113-3:114)

"And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender. (The Noble Quran, 29:46)"

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I haven't seen the movie yet. I t can't be worse than Jack Black in- anything.

Chris