Identifying ...Babylon the great

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by mee, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
    THE book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1)


    For example, it mentions a woman with the name "Babylon the Great" written on her forehead.

    This woman is said to be sitting on "crowds and nations." (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15)


    Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic.

    So, what does this symbolic harlot represent?


    At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as "the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth."

    The term "city" indicates an organized group of people.

    Since this "great city" has control over "the kings of the earth," the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope.

    It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire?
    A RELIGIOUS ONE

    shall we see and Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.
    An empire can be political, commercial, or religious.
    The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that "the kings of the earth," or the political elements of this world, "committed fornication" with her.
    Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called "the great harlot."—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.



    Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the "merchants of the earth," representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction.

    In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from "a distance." (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17)

    Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but.
    A RELIGIOUS ONE


    The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her "spiritistic practice." (Revelation 18:23)



    Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great "a dwelling place of demons." (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12)


    This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting "prophets" and "holy ones." (Revelation 18:24)



    In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders "the witnesses of Jesus." (Revelation 17:6)

    so as we can see , this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents
    THE WORLD EMPIRE OF FALSE RELIGION which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.



     
  2. Dream

    Dream New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    1
    I once had a strong leaning towards that point of view, but now I think there is no organization large enough, international enough, or influential enough to fully fill the shoes of that woman. She has long been thought to be none other than the traditionalists under the Papacy; but that is merely a decoy of the truth of it. Give no glory to any church group, wether positive or negative. Negatively glorifying one positively glorifies another and vice-versa.


    It is comforting to be able to point the finger, making you feel safe; but it is false comfort. Cease to believe that JW's in name are JW's absolutely. They are not the ones who have been giving you spritual food, Mee. Manna is from heaven but man is of the earth. I would not take you from your people, but I still say to you and to everyone "come out of her" without making any accusation against you. My accusation is against the rulers who ought to be servants and are not, and these are everywhere even among you. When the voice from heaven says "...Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev 18:4) It is not talking about a religious fraternity but of a mindset. She is indeed a symbol and not an organization. "...but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Eph 6:12) That voice is spoken to all of us who needed to hear it Mee, including Mee if Mee is one.

    There is no simple threshold that you can step over with your foot that will place you in the right flock. The sheep hear his voice wherever they are and that is what makes them his sheep. It is the manna and not the man. The wheat and the tares are always together and in the parable always grow together until harvest. The mark of the Beast is upon the forehead (thoughts) and the right hand (actions) -- similar to the sign of the cross because it is the sign of fallen mankind. Were I to join the Catholics, the sign of the cross to me would be the sign of my own death with Jesus. Yes, I count Catholics as my equals and Jews too and many more over whom I have no control, some answering the call to come out and some not. (Rev 14:9) "...and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." (Mat 16:23) Wherever you are and whatever group you associate with, "the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Luke 7:36).
     
  3. leastone

    leastone Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, now I see the light... (*smile*)

    Learner
     
  4. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  5. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,627
    Likes Received:
    106

    Hmm...is Babylon the Great associated with the "Man of Lawlessness?"
    2 Thessalonians 2
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Indeed. Maybe the United Nations?
     
  7. greymare

    greymare New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Im sorry but to me, Babylon the great could be changed to "insert name of despised religion here...". Pick one, ....
     
  8. Francis king

    Francis king New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    1
    ... for some xtians, the whore of babylon is the church itself, the holy church of Rome...

    it is true the kings of the earth fornicated with her, for their own ends... she is the great harlot for she lies down with them all... for money, for status, for power...

    however, Mee, I cannot agree with you when you say that "all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired"...

    remember the stories of Jesus? Remember Lazarus?
    If Jesus did raise him from the dead, then how did he do this?

    Spirits, souls, consciousnesses that have "gone on" or "passed over" are not evil, and demon-inspired...

    aw...

    thats harsh...

     
  9. Dream

    Dream New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    1
    Exactly. Pick a group and tell me what makes them Babylon, and I can probably find other groups have the same Babyl-onian features. Do you think it is the doctrine of infallibility? I know of 6 off the top of my head that have that in one form or another. Is it inefficient use of funds? 100,000. Dark secrets? 400,000. Choose your criteria and "insert name of despised religion here..."
     
  10. greymare

    greymare New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    woo hoooo, so its not only me, that thinks this way. (that sure is a relief)
     
  11. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    8
    mee, are you really suggesting that the text of Revelations, with a believed composition date of late in the first century, was intentionally covering a meaning that contemporary readers of the time would never have been able to understand or associate with?
     
  12. c0de

    c0de Vassal

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    You first have to define the world "religion". According to one definition, Science is a religion... According to another, some political ideologies of today can also be considered religious in nature. The hint that this system is functional throughout the world, well, if we ask the question which system of beliefs and practices is uniformly applied throughout the world today, it is the eco/political market materialism that permeates every society in every continent today. This I believe, is the real "anti-christ" that the Jews, Christians and Muslims have been expecting ... the only difference is, there are no more Messiahs... No one is going to come and clean up our mess. We were already given all the warnings we needed, we still drifted astray... The world has sold its soul... and there are no more U-turns. The only thing to await now is The Hour... Judgement Day



    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.
    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of "Spiritus Mundi"
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=Monotype Corsiva, cursive]-[/FONT]
    [FONT=Monotype Corsiva, cursive]- William Butler Yeats, "The Second Coming"[/FONT]
     
  13. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,627
    Likes Received:
    106
    Well, although the girl in my avatar, Tsai Luan, does have scarlet and purple in her garments, and she is sitting next to (not riding) a scarlet-colored beast (a tiger,) it's not her! :eek:
    -source-
     
  14. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
    indeed it has and it has been revealed.:)
     
  15. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
    the man of lawlessness is certainly a counterfeit religious system and
    The apostasy started in the apostle Paul’s day.
    and it has certainly exalted itself into a ruling position over the "Christian" congregation ,and it has been revealed.
    and yes ,it has a great part in babylon the great
     
  16. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0

    babylon the great is not just one religion , it is many false religions, and it is worldwide.
    But the man of lawlessness has a very big part to play in babylon the great. And the man of lawlessness is certainly a big counterfeit
     
  17. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
    :) true , your woman is not the the woman called BABYLON THE GREAT .:)


    the woman in the book of revelation is more like this

    In Revelation 17:3-5, Babylon the Great is described as a woman arrayed in purple and scarlet, richly adorned, and sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast having seven heads and ten horns.
    Upon her forehead a name is written, "a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.’" She is also depicted as sitting on "many waters" representing "peoples and crowds and nations and tongues."—Re 17:1-15.


    and very shortly now, that seven headed beast that she is riding will turn on her in a big way and it will completley devastate her
     
  18. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    6,627
    Likes Received:
    106
    Comparing 2 Thess 2, with the 'mystery of lawlessness,' and Rev 17, with the 'mystery of Babylon the Great,' I see some possible parallels. Is Babylon the Great ( And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”-Rev 17:18) the one who restrains the man of lawlessness, (2 Thess 2:7,) and is the man of lawlessness part of the beast that Babylon the Great rides? The man of lawlessness is sent strong delusion and will believe what is false. (2 Thess 2:11) The ten horns of the beast will hate Babylon the Great, and destroy her. (Rev 17:16)

    I don't know. It's interesting to ponder, though. It's clear that this delusion written about will apply to those who don't love the truth, but enjoy unrighteousness instead. (2 Thess 2:10-12)
     
  19. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  20. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,363
    Likes Received:
    0
     

Share This Page