"Word of God" v Opinion

muhammad_isa said:
Absolutely .. we are all a product of our experiences and environment :)

..but I wouldn't say that salvation comes "in spite of our beliefs" .. it depends why we hold those beliefs.
In spite of our shortcomings, maybe .. we are sinners i.e. we are not all saints

Salvation is more to do with sincerity and intention than intelligence or creed, in my understanding
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Well, here we part company......:)


It is a familiar opinion within the Buddhist fraternity - and others - that prior to the Great Journey of the Mahayana, we must prepare ourselves by the "smaller journey", more often associated with what could be termed "moral rectitude" and "obedience".

This is what the Pure Land/Shin Buddhist "Amida Looking Back" is all about. She stands, hands in the "teaching" mudra, calling the "faithful"," yet She turns her head, looking back, her first thought for those who, for whatever reason, do not or cannot come.

Am I judgemental? Yes, instinctively so. I am spiteful, instinctively so. Do I remember slights against me? Yes, I have the memory of an elephant in that regard. I give thanks to Amida, Reality-as-is, that turns such "ice" into the "waters of enlightenment". Give thanks that, in Christian terms, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness." (Corinthians, NT)

"Grace, if thou repent, thou shalt not lack. Yet who shall give ye that grace to begin?" (John Donne)
 
But fear not! As posted before, the profound words of Shinran:- "Even the good person will enter the Pure Land, how much more the person of evil."

Just Shinran's opinion no doubt, yet let's face it, all it would need is some Authority to declare it "God's Word" and who knows, in a 1000 years time perhaps we could be having Crusades and Inquisitions over its precise meaning.
 
It is my opinion that the word being of G!d is an opinion.

We know, (er some of us believe) that Moses did not act a a secretary for G!d writing the Pentateuch, but that it was written by a number of sources.

Divinely inspired is another discussion, we each hold the authors of our belief were called so.
 
wil said:
It is my opinion that the word being of G!d is an opinion.

We know, (er some of us believe) that Moses did not act a a secretary for G!d writing the Pentateuch, but that it was written by a number of sources.

Divinely inspired is another discussion, we each hold the authors of our belief were called so.
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We are awaiting an invasion by the grandchildren et al, but I just have time........good distinction between "authorised word of G!d" and "inspiration (divine)" . What illuminates the distinction (IMO) is the response of Yun-men when asked, "What are the teachings of an entire lifetime" and answered, "An appropriate statement". Appropriate in any one moment of radical freedom. Once the moment passes, any statement can congeal, becoming perhaps a "word of God" (or not) dependant upon opinion.
 
CobblersApprentice said:
I said:
..I wouldn't say that salvation comes "in spite of our beliefs" .. it depends why we hold those beliefs.
Salvation is more to do with sincerity and intention than intelligence or creed, in my understanding
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Well, here we part company......:)
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..so it doesn't matter why we follow a spiritual source?
It doesn't matter what our intention is?

As an example, if we give to charity, does it matter what our intention is?

CobblersApprentice said:
..I give thanks to Amida, Reality-as-is, that turns such "ice" into the "waters of enlightenment"
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..so Amida is the Logos that you referred to earlier? i.e.Amida is G-d?
 
muhammad_isa said:
..so it doesn't matter why we follow a spiritual source?
It doesn't matter what our intention is?

As an example, if we give to charity, does it matter what our intention is?



..so Amida is the Logos that you referred to earlier? i.e.Amida is G-d?
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Why should it? Obviously, if our intention is to justify ourselves by seeking to achieve some sort of "pass mark" with our own particular opinion of Divinity, we might well find ourselves in trouble eventually.

As far as "my own" G!d, given that - as you agree - G!d is wholly other and ultimately incomprehensible, what is really in any name?

EDIT:- by the way, here are verses 11 and 12 of the Buddhist Dhammapada:-

Those who mistake the unessential to be essential and the essential to be unessential, dwelling in wrong thoughts, never arrive at the essential

Those who know the essential to be essential and the unessential to be unessential, dwelling in right thoughts, do arrive at the essential.

Worth pondering.
 
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I think I hear the patter (clatter!) of not so tiny feet........
 
muhammad_isa said:
As you know, Jews and Muslims do not view G-d as a person.
Mankind being created "in His likeness" is a spiritual concept.
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This means you are an Atheist.

I wonder if you disagree.

If you believe what you posted ---then you are an Atheist.

Yes, atheists too, can speak on spiritual concepts all they want.

Hare Krishna,
Bhaktajan
 
Bhaktajan II said:
This means you are an Atheist.

I wonder if you disagree.

If you believe what you posted ---then you are an Atheist.

Yes, atheists too, can speak on spiritual concepts all they want.

Hare Krishna,
Bhaktajan
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As the resident non-believer, no it doesn't.
You do say some really silly things sometimes!
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
As the resident non-believer, no it doesn't.
You do say some really silly things sometimes!
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As you know, some Atheists along with all Atheists do not view God as a person.

Otherwise, there are agnostics.

Oh boy. Have the definitions now changed?

In the word "definition" is contained the word definite.
 
CobblersApprentice said:
Why should it? Obviously, if our intention is to justify ourselves by seeking to achieve some sort of "pass mark" with our own particular opinion of Divinity, we might well find ourselves in trouble eventually.
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I see .. this seems counterintuitive to me.
If our intention makes no difference, then what's to stop me following something just because I think it's "cool"? That has nothing to do with G-d, surely?

Regards this "pass mark" thing that you keep bringing up, are you referring to G-d rewarding us for performing good deeds? Do you think that G-d shouldn't reward people?
Remember, G-d is not a person "handing out sweeties" .. if you get a reward, it is due to your intention and correct belief.
..just like the force of gravity acts towards the earth!
 
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muhammad_isa said:
Regards this "pass mark" thing that you keep bringing up, are you referring to G-d rewarding us for performing good deeds? Do you think that G-d shouldn't reward people?
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Like virtually all the major Faiths, Pure Land Buddhism sees "salvation" as pure gift. Our life, in recognising this, becomes more an expression of gratitude, a passing on of the gift. Not a search for rewards.
 
Bhaktajan II said:
If you are an Atheist you proclaim "GOD is not a person"
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No .. you are mistaken.

From wikipedia:
Atheism is contrasted with theism which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists
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It follows that an atheist is somebody who doesn't believe in deities :)
I suppose it is natural to compare G-d with some sort of creature .. it's all about perspective.
If you consider that everything we see around us is made by G-d, then how can G-d be physical or part of this universe?
 
muhammad_isa said:
From wikipedia:

Atheism is contrasted with theism which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists

It follows that an atheist is somebody who doesn't believe in deities :)
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I shall now correct your comprehension of the English idiom.

"Atheism is contrasted with theism.
Theism is the belief that at least one deity exists"


Ergo, Atheism [non-theism] s the belief that NOT EVEN ONE deity exists.
 
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