A New Threat to Interfaith Scholarship

[Saltmeister]

well, I am not out to be liked or to please everyone. I talk with Wil quite often & have no problem there, so what is your point?

so what is the difference between a pretend tornado & a real tornado? in your opinion of course.

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not talking about your relationship with Wil now, or even back then. I'm talking about the incident where you lashed out at Wil for literal interpretation of scripture when you were normally a calm and balanced personality.

The reason why I brought it up was for two reasons. One was because I hadn't seen you for a long time and that was the last I saw of you. I thought it would be a nice way for us to get re-acquainted, to talk about an event in the past you might remember. It was a way of asking you how life was going.

The second was that I thought you were having another one of those "lashing out" episodes and that by reminding you of what happened you'd get back to normal again and start being friendly again.

So, does this mean you want to have a bickering session with me? People are entitled to change. We all do.

So what exactly is your concern about me? Is it that I dont put any claim to these religions? My church claims christian, but I do not...that does not mean I can't still go there & fellowship & share certain things with people I have known all my life.

As I said above, I just wanted to know how things were going, as well as if you were having another one of those "lashing out" episodes and if you were going to get back to normal again and maybe then we could "get reacquainted."

Now that you've explained your present situation I can start to understand how things have changed. I just remember you being a calm and peaceful person and I was just wondering if you were the same guy! Are you the same Bandit? My thinking is that even after a change of beliefs, a person's temperament should remain the same.

I understand that back then, two or three years ago when you went crazy about Wil not taking things literally it was because he pushed your buttons and revealed a different side to Bandit. I just want to know how your buttons have changed position so I can deal with the new Bandit. I need new instructions.

I am not at all being antagonistic. I don't know what perception you get from reading my posts, whether they are dealing with you or others. I don't know how much you know about me.

I don't come with instructions either but if you ask questions I can explain how to deal with me. I am a bit mysterious and enigmatic myself.

Obviously being a nonconformist means you're an outcast in a religious community where you have valuable social connections and relationships. I don't know if that has changed your overall temperament or if this is the abnormal, excited Bandit. In order to deal with you appropriately I have to know enough about your state of mind, in much the same way that you must know mine. That is what I am asking.

I'd like to speak to the normal Bandit. You just seem angry and irritable and I'm not sure if that's the real you.

 

[Bandit]

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not talking about your relationship with Wil now, or even back then. I'm talking about the incident where you lashed out at Wil for literal interpretation of scripture when you were normally a calm and balanced personality.

The reason why I brought it up was for two reasons. One was because I hadn't seen you for a long time and that was the last I saw of you. I thought it would be a nice way for us to get re-acquainted, to talk about an event in the past you might remember. It was a way of asking you how life was going.

The second was that I thought you were having another one of those "lashing out" episodes and that by reminding you of what happened you'd get back to normal again and start being friendly again.



As I said above, I just wanted to know how things were going, as well as if you were having another one of those "lashing out" episodes and if you were going to get back to normal again and maybe then we could "get reacquainted."

Now that you've explained your present situation I can start to understand how things have changed. I just remember you being a calm and peaceful person and I was just wondering if you were the same guy! Are you the same Bandit? My thinking is that even after a change of beliefs, a person's temperament should remain the same.

I understand that back then, two or three years ago when you went crazy about Wil not taking things literally it was because he pushed your buttons and revealed a different side to Bandit. I just want to know how your buttons have changed position so I can deal with the new Bandit. I need new instructions.

I am not at all being antagonistic. I don't know what perception you get from reading my posts, whether they are dealing with you or others. I don't know how much you know about me.

I don't come with instructions either but if you ask questions I can explain how to deal with me. I am a bit mysterious and enigmatic myself.

Obviously being a nonconformist means you're an outcast in a religious community where you have valuable social connections and relationships. I don't know if that has changed your overall temperament or if this is the abnormal, excited Bandit. In order to deal with you appropriately I have to know enough about your state of mind, in much the same way that you must know mine. That is what I am asking.

I'd like to speak to the normal Bandit. You just seem angry and irritable and I'm not sure if that's the real you.

I have seen people here lash out all the time on a regular basis and and more often than I ever have in this joint. So what.

Now I am not normal according to you.
Wil had nothing to do with me not caring about this place or religion in general.

About your concern, why not just answer the question for yourself about me and the incident you keep bringing up? One thing I have learned is to let things go. That comes with age. You dont base everything on one incident like you are doing.

so what IS the difference between a pretend conversation & a literal conversation? is it like a pretend tornado and a literal tornado?
That is not a hard question but you are avoiding it.

Back to the OP -The threat to interfaith scholarship must be deeper than anyone wants to face. I hardly view a few muslims walking away from it as a threat since they can come back at any time. It makes no difference to me if you have interreligion or not. I do not view it as something literal or real, rather pretend & pretense.

FYI- the church I was raised in & still attend, does not outcast people as typical religion does. I take your criticism just fine but You are way off base. I dont feel like I have to give the details of my personal life to you & why I do what I do.

 

[Saltmeister]

About your concern, why not just answer the question for yourself about me and the incident you keep bringing up?

I had to respond because you asked:

So, does this mean you want to have a bickering session with me? People are entitled to change. We all do. So what exactly is your concern about me? Is it that I dont put any claim to these religions?

I was just making clear this wasn't about your change in beliefs. It was about the perceived change in your temperament. I had a read of your last post and I think I'm starting to see the phenomenon of the old Bandit. We didn't talk much way back then. I would see your posts (and you would probably see mine) and I noticed you had a way of speaking. Sarcasm and subtleties. I'm starting to remember now. Having said that, I think I'm satisfied that this is the Bandit I remember.

so what IS the difference between a pretend conversation & a literal conversation? is it like a pretend tornado and a literal tornado?
That is not a hard question but you are avoiding it.

The question was for Wil, not me. Did he answer it eventually?

FYI- the church I was raised in & still attend, does not outcast people as typical religion does. I take your criticism just fine but You are way off base. I dont feel like I have to give the details of my personal life to you & why I do what I do.

I wasn't asking for that. I just wanted to say hello because I haven't seen you around here for a while. Criticism? Again, I just wanted to say hello, how's things? Are you the Bandit I remember? That kind of thing. Never mind my exact words in the past. Focus on my intention. Criticism wasn't part of it. That last post was to make sure you knew I wasn't trying to antagonise.

Back to the OP -The threat to interfaith scholarship must be deeper than anyone wants to face. I hardly view a few muslims walking away from it as a threat since they can come back at any time. It makes no difference to me if you have interreligion or not. I do not view it as something literal or real, rather pretend & pretense.

Pretense as in futile and pointless? If there was a resolution it would be each of the three Abrahamic faiths seeing a purpose for each other and giving them credit for it. While they are searching for it, they should avoid asserting authority over the others. Judaism claims a particular relationship with God. The rest depends on Islam and Christianity discovering their respective places in the process.

With a process there is a goal. If the three faiths are just going to co-exist I doubt whether interfaith activity would achieve much. The goal could be working to bring about the conditions for the coming of the Messiah, which both Islam and Christianity expect.

You mentioned before that you believed that it was better for the Abrahamic faiths to not exist. I would agree in the long-term, but I believe that they may have a purpose in the short-term. Once the three faiths have achieved their goals, quite possibly, we'd all meet God. That is when the three faiths can pretty much all disappear, because when we finally meet God, we won't need religions anymore. God will be a reality. If they have a purpose, it's fusion of God into our reality.

 

[wil]

It is funny, I'd like to find the tornado incident. I was accused by others of 'chasing good Christians like Bandit away'. Yet the whole time Bandit and I continue discussions off the boards.

The OP, oh that old line back to the OP always back to the OP just when we get to something good.

M. (phuh) doesn't exist, yeah, as I said it is a game that is played often, let's disprove others so we look better. However we've all got skeletons in our closet and those headed down those corridors aren't headed toward interfaith discussion anyway...why bother.

But me, I'm all for exposing the skeletons in my religions closet, dusting it out, taking a microscope to it...but get lambasted for that also. "No don't add fuel to the fire, you are destroying the faith"

Salty one hell of a memory, I don't recall the discussion at all. I suppose I'll have to wait to fall asleep so the brain cell that keeps my body upright can talk with my other braincell the one that allows me to type, and the two of them can see what they can remember....

 

[Bandit]

No Problem Saltmeister. Sorry if I misunderstood you. I do not warm up to people very easily these days but am way happier with the decisions I have made. I dont remember if he ever answerd it because I never had any ought about that so I dont care. But allow me to answer it. I feel people are wise not do not take mythical & pretend tornados serious, like wizard of oz never happened- but would be very wise to take literal tornados serious. A literal situation will always have a bigger impact on people than a pretend or metaphoric one.

I would not take a metaphoric job serious...there is only a metaphoric paychek kind of like a metaphoric afterlife-it never happens. I would take a literal job serious.

I think what you might remember a few years ago was a bandit who spent most of his life trying to be liked by everyone & going out of his way to please everyone trying to make friends with all who come his way. Today I dont care what people think about me. I am not out to make new friends or please head hanchos. This allows me to be myself without the tip toe around people to make them happy while denying my own feelings. I have plenty of real time friends. I have no problem telling everyone exactly what I think & you know some people can't take that.

Wil had a thread around here that asked if/how CR changed you. if you read it, I think that will answer what you are fishing for.

Pretense as in futile and pointless? If there was a resolution it would be each of the three Abrahamic faiths seeing a purpose for each other and giving them credit for it. While they are searching for it, they should avoid asserting authority over the others. Judaism claims a particular relationship with God. The rest depends on Islam and Christianity discovering their respective places in the process.

With a process there is a goal. If the three faiths are just going to co-exist I doubt whether interfaith activity would achieve much. The goal could be working to bring about the conditions for the coming of the Messiah, which both Islam and Christianity expect.

Pretense as in fakey, lying, stealing, hypocrisy.

Of course it is futile & pointless. It may be good for people who need counseling in marriage. You do realize all I ever see when I visit here is the same old topics over & over & over & over & over & over. There is nothing new and it is the same bickering for hundreds of years.

Not that that is all bad but it is still futile. I jump in on something like this when it is different but it really does nothing for me.

I think what it will achieve is a bunch of phoney balogny. That messiah you think of will produce a death penalty for them all as they give up their power to a fake messiah political leader. Most likely out of desparation. I am sure I will be dead by then. It will make hitler, crusades & stalins look like the candy man.

It may all appear good on the surface and there may be a few with a real heart, but I am more concerned with reality of deception..a real literal deception not a metaphoric one that is going to crack open a massive 3rd world war because the people will be so angry, um, because they trusted a system of power to regulate them & because their religions sucked so bad.

People don't like to face those possibilities & I realize no one is going to stop it. It is easier to live in a pretend environment where all is good & try to force people to get along in controlled environments like this one. I do believe the world will be a much safer place without all this hate & hypocrisy that religion produces & when I say religion I do mean people.

You can only keep people jibber jabbering for so long. Talking does not change a whole lot & when two people want a war, talking about religion is not going to help.

as one gets older you start to realize, things that were important to you in your youth, like religion, are not important as you get older. Not that it has to be avoided, it just does not matter. There are people who I would avoid & ignore because I do not like them and that is my perogative

Anyone who really believes there is going to be peace thru talking about religion is seriously delusional.

 

[Bandit]

It is funny, I'd like to find the tornado incident. I was accused by others of 'chasing good Christians like Bandit away'. Yet the whole time Bandit and I continue discussions off the boards.

The OP, oh that old line back to the OP always back to the OP just when we get to something good.

M. (phuh) doesn't exist, yeah, as I said it is a game that is played often, let's disprove others so we look better. However we've all got skeletons in our closet and those headed down those corridors aren't headed toward interfaith discussion anyway...why bother.

But me, I'm all for exposing the skeletons in my religions closet, dusting it out, taking a microscope to it...but get lambasted for that also. "No don't add fuel to the fire, you are destroying the faith"

Salty one hell of a memory, I don't recall the discussion at all. I suppose I'll have to wait to fall asleep so the brain cell that keeps my body upright can talk with my other braincell the one that allows me to type, and the two of them can see what they can remember....

I dont belong to the christian religion any more. It disgusts me to no end. That does not mean I don't belong to Christ.

I vaguely remember it but it was not that big of a deal to me. I dont know if you answered it & i dont care either way. Yes we do have skeletons and so do these religions. Sometimes it is just a matter of admitting it.

You are absolutely correct because the old prove it & disprove it is a cheapo debate tactic, kind of like the one where they start falsely accusing people of scarecrow arguments because they cant handle the valid questions & facts. It might disrupt their religion or legalism. If they actually answer the question, the next set of questions just might endanger the belief.

I went through every religion here doing the liberal vs literal thingy and it got old real fast because it is futile. The owner did not like my project but I did it any way. You did not chase me away Wil, I just dont get into this bickering stuff, reading it or debating it so I up & moved on. It was a good decision for me.
I thought this was a good thread in the beginning because it was different & deals with the problems of interreligions.

 

[c0de]

@ Salt

But being agnostic isn't an extreme position as far as I know. How did he undergo such a transformation?

He said that it was because of the actions of religious people.

In the past few years I've operated under the belief that if you start with strong sentiments in your mind (sentiments that you see as noble), you'll end up switching polarity with opposite sentiments of but similar strength. ie. If you work hard at being a good man you get sick of it and become corrupt. Therefore it's better to start off being slightly corrupt so you can gradually transform yourself into a good man later in life.

LOL, there is some truth to that I think. You know what they say: the people who are the best guardians, are usually the best thieves (if they ever chose to switch sides, that is).

With regards to my own internal issues, I've had issues with these "strong sentiments," strong opinions, powerful feelings, sentiments that are opposed to what I know I should be doing at the present time. It started off in high school with me trying to be a high achiever, striving to get the best grades. I had an operating principle that I used to maximise my productivity. Maximum productivity was the goal. I would sacrifice my social life to get the kind of academic performance I wanted. I was extremely zealous and fanatical. I was dedicated to the cause. I did, actually, sort of invent a kind of "religion" or "ideology" to inspire myself. I made me feel powerful. I felt like a machine. I even felt like I was mentally stronger than the ordinary person with my philosophy on maximising academic productivity. I realise now it was an unrealistic thing to believe.

When I started my undergraduate degree, I realised I was "out of touch" with reality. I wasn't very sociable. I was socially inept. I tried to adjust, but found that I had wasted so many years not being sociable that when I did try to interact socially I felt awkward. I underwent a tremendous amount of mental and emotional changes, and by the time I finished the degree, I had burnt out.

Thats so wierd... I went almost in exactly the opposite way. The only thing which kept me from completely destroying my body and mind during those times was an anchor in religion... fell out, fell back, fell out again... came pretty close to total destruction.

You can really mess up your mind when you allow powerful sentiments and feelings to control it. At some point in your life, they will make you feel powerful, strong and proud. But when there is some change in the external environment and you realise you have to change, you find yourself with a storm raging inside your mind. At the end of the process, the newly formed person is even worse than the original!

A person who starts off being radical ends up being radioactive!

I know exactly what you mean. The first time I was led towards religion, I was radioactive. I became very rigid and fanatical. It was that fervor that newbies to religion usually get. You want to make up for lost time (and I was only 17 or 18!!!)... but that did not last too long... I burnt out... and fell back into my old habbits...

But this time something was different... Something had changed... As if I picked up a light during that radioactive phase, that led the way through the darkness that came again... And when I came out on the other side, when I left the life I fell back into... I came out in a much better state, with experiences and understanding that I realize I could not have gained any other way...