Is the Christian God the same as the Muslim God?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by citizenzen, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Is the Christian God the same as the Muslim God?

    The Quran, Torah and Injeel [the Book originally revealed to the Prophet Jesus PBUH] was revealed by the same God, Allah, but the Christians say the book that they call the 'Bible' was written by a man called Paul who was inspired by God in Syria, to write it, thus I'm not sure wether that 'Bible' is the original Injeel, and which later the Christians that went astray distorted or wether the Injeel is a different book alltogether that may now be totally lost.

    The Christians however have distorted the concept of God and they regard God to be a triune God, thus their God and the muslim God is not one and the same now, for their God consists partially of a man, Jesus [pbuh] who was a man and Prophet of God and it consists of a concept of a spirit too? [the holy ghost] and the main part of their God, who they call the 'father' has the image of a man for they regard that man was created in Gods image, thus that 'father' will have the image of a man.

    If they worship that 'father' alone without associating any man or spirit to Him, then it could be considered as the same God as the Muslims in the sense that any association of an image of man with that 'father' will be considered a blasphemy but maybe not to make it alltogether a different God; it may be the same God, but with a distorted concept of Him.

    Anyone who believes in the correct concept of God will believe in the same God as the Muslims and the correct concept is as thus:

    God is nothing like man can ever even remotely imagine thus whatever thought a man associates with God, God is far above all of that; God is not male or female [God is reffered to as 'He' just as a reference and not meaning that He is male] and He is totally unlike anything, even in the slightest possible way, to any part of the creation whatsoever; God has attributes, such as he is All-Knowing, All-Seeing, etc, but this knowing and seeing or any other attributes of His is not like human attributes in the slightest. God does not abide in His creation thus God is not 'everywhere' in a litteral sense, but His 'powers' extend everywhere, such as he sees, hears, and has full control over everything that exists.

    God does not do anything beneath His infinite greatness, thus God will never transform Himself into anything that we can ever imagine, thus God does not ever transform himself into a man or any other creature, nor does God have any 'parts'.

    God is One, there is nothing like unto Him, but nonethless, He is not devoid of attributes [the attributes are the 'intrinsic essence' of God and nor different 'parts' of Him].


    Peace
     
  2. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Hi Bandit,

    Here's an explanation of the 'rules' in Islam which incorporates the five daily prayers too:

    Islam really dont have that many rules from other religions and ways of life really; it may seem that way to some, but here are basically the rules that we follow:

    We pray five times a day; wash each time before we pray if we dont have the previous wash intact that is.

    One month in a year, we fast for the whole month from dawn to sunset; during the fasting we refrain from food and drink and sexual intercourse.

    Only those who have reached a level of moderate wealth or more are to give two and a half percent of their wealth in charity once a year to the poor; this obligatory charity is not an obligation on the poor people.

    And whoever can make their way there, i.e, whoever can financially afford it and has the physical ability, have to perform the pilgrimage rites in makkah only once in a lifetime

    The other obligatory 'rule' is that we have to believe and profess that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad [saw] in Allah's Messenger, but this is more of a belief then any rule that we have to practically carry out.

    I think it is the above five obligations of Islam that differentiates a Muslim from a non-Muslim, but amongst them five, people of other religions will also have the 'believing in the creed' obligation and they will be stressed to give in charity too [the obligation of giving in charity can be understood if we look at it from the perspective that charity is desperately needed for the poor to maintain a livelihood], so rule wise, in comparison to other religions, there's really only three which we have that other religions may not stress and these are the five daily prayers, pilgrimage to Makkah and fasting for a whole month in a year, but these three rules are verry benifical and fair to be obligations on us, given that the pilgrimage one comes with a fair condition, and we keep ourselves spiritually nourished and safe from sins and give our due to God by performing the five daily prayers and fasting for one month in a year; after all Allah is to give us a great prize in return for our efforts, which is the eternal garden of paradise and surely that should take some effort on our part to earn?.

    Also, in these rules [and all rules in Islam] lies a verry good wisdom in them that nourishes our souls spiritually and gets us even closer to God and instills sincere devotion to Gods will in our hearts, for when a person obeys God on Gods terms, that is sincerely obeying God and making true sacrifice for Him, but when He worships God as he feels like it or as he desires, then there is an element of personal desire in that and it lacks the nature of true sacrifice.


    Regarding every other rule in Islam, they will be things which every other major religions will have too, such as unclean or harmfull food and drink will be prohibbited for us and we should live good ethical and moral lives, keeping away from sin, criminality and vice, and maintain good buisness, social ethics and conduct.

    If the situation and climate is right, then Shariah Law is enjoined on us too, but every religion and no-religions have to abide by a law; even Christianity says to abide by the law of the land and the only difference in Islam is that, rather then God leave it up to the whims, biases, subjectivity etc, etc, of the people to make up their own laws, God has revealed the type of laws for us that should be implemented as the law of the land [and some He has left to us, but these 'some' have to follow ethical, moral and just guidleines too] and if we consider how contradictory and problematic man-made laws could be, then it is easily understandable of how God would want to reveal the perfect law rather then leave this verry important aspect of our lives to the desires of whoever finds themselves in power.

    hope that helps

    Peace :)
     
  3. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Hi Abdullah. The only part of your description of God that I take issue with is this one:
    I believe that God's mercy is greater than God's "majesty," (which makes God so unique,) and therefore I would not place a limit on God's mercy towards us, even to the point of God choosing to walk among us so that we can better understand God.

    Peace.
     
  4. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    <Also to add:> so God can teach us how to live.
     
  5. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    The term "greater than" implies an ability to quantify G-d's attributes. Can they be quantified?

    Humans cannot recognize anything outside their own experience with the sensible world. G-d is outside of the sensible world. Therefore, we cannot recognize Him.

    As Rudolf Bultmann once pointed out, it's no coincidence that G-d is not available to humans' sensory experience. God is invisible to us because he has made a point of it. Throughout the Bible G-d makes appearances, but they take the form that are obviously not G-d Himself, like the burning bush. Jesus may indeed be the face of G-d, but he himself denied that he was God in numerous statements. There are close to 20 expressions attributed to Jesus where he points out his dependence on a G-d who is Ultimately Other.

    G-d is the Ultimate Other, "the inconceivable supersensible." When we see characterizations of G-d as "infinite," this would seem to reinforce the idea that G-d is outside the changing world of finite forms. We might have a conceptual idea of what infinity is, but there's no way to experience it or observe it as a divine trait. And so there's no way to confirm whether or not G-d is in fact infinite.

    Likewise in Islam, G-d is considered unknowable According to Al-Ghazali, Islamic gnostics generally converge on the realization that they can't know G-d, "that their knowledge is, in truth, that they do not know Him and that it is absolutely impossible for them to know Him."

    The suggestion that a "Muslim G-d" can be distinguished from a Judeo-Christian G-d is basically a linguistic absurdity. I have no idea what the purpose of the OP is. It seems to be intended to create an ideological tension that is logically predicated on theological absurdity. Amusing anyway.
     
  6. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Well, which is stronger, love and mercy, or pride and majesty?
     
  7. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Hi seattlegal

    but is not Gods Mercy and powers great enough for His Mercy to reach us without Him doing something beneath His majesty? :)

    And can we really understand God in a way which we confine Him to within what our imagination can concieve? :); will that not be a distorted understanding where we are placing limits on the infinite?; indeed it will, hence we can only possilby 'understand' Him in terms of absolute Oneness, and that He is our lord and master to who'm all worship is due...

    Now some people may have difficulty having the above absolutely confirmed without a shred of doubt via intellect alone..., hence if we turn to revelation [what God Himself has revealed of Himself] then that absolutely confirms this for us

    Now ofcourse the big question is; which of the revelations has acurate and undistorted information about God?

    well if a science book was proven to be distorted or contradictory would you put your trust in it?; henceforth if we apply the same scrupulousness to the two former revelations, the Torah and the Injeel [the Bible?] which clearly have many contradictions, and have both? undergone many revisions, then with what certainty can we derive acurate knowledge from them?; we can only derive guesses from them and just 'hope' and 'cling on to faith' that it's true without any absolute certainty for only in the manifest truth can one be certain

    And on the contrary, if we study the Quran, here is what we find [extracted from a post from my archive that originally answered wether Muhamamd [saw] was mentally ill]:

    The Quran is consistent from start to finish; it has no contradiction in it, it is every bit like what God would reveal; it's message is consistent to the extent where it even points out the errors of the past heavenly revealed religions [and not just agrees with them] and corrects the doctrine of the Prophet Jesus [pbuh]. It has many scientific miracles in it, It has a complete code of a way of life that cannot be refuted and which is in total accordance with justice and all the attribute of God mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah. The Prophecie/s of the Quran have come true and some may be pending.

    The above are just some signs indicating that the Quran cannot be the halucinations or the 'inspirations' of person suffering from mental illnesses.

    There is further proof indicating the objective truth of Islam in the Sunnah; all the Prophecies of the Prophet Muhammad [saw] have come true so far; the interpretation of the Quran, that is the Sunnah, fits the verses of the Quran without any contradiction whatsoever and it harmonises intellecutally any seemingly contradcitions in the Quran. Basically, the Quran and the Sunnah is a hundred percent according to logic; the 'supernatural' stuff in the Quran and Sunnah is in accordance with Gods powers and attributes. The Sunnah contains some 'medical miracles' too.

    All of the above is, in my opinion, enough to know that the Quran [or the Sunnah] cannot be the result of TLE; surely TLE dont inspire people to automatically come out with scienctific facts that havn't been 'discovered' yet?, and surely it cannot inspire or instinctively induce such a perfect, comprehensive, vollumous, miraculous, and an ocean of knowledge that the Quran is?
    ............

    Thus the conclusion is the Quran can only be from God, Exalted be He

    And the Quranic definition of God is in line with what the intellect indicates too.

    Hope that helps

    Peace [​IMG]
     
  8. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    This Buddhist thinks this interpretation is right on.

    Almost makes me want to become Islamic.
     
  9. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Indeed, that is what it boils down to.

    I would add: "or what our imagination can deny."
    Indeed, we can have distorted understandings of God due to our trying to limit God, even to the point of denying God.
     
  10. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Ummm... to talk about it? I think you can see that what you call a linguistic absurdity (And I agree with you) is a lot more than that to some other folk. What this thread reveals is how deeply cultural and political differences influence our religious belief. (No duh, right?)

    What I'm afraid it really reveals is a human propensity to not see others as equals and creating separate gods is part of that.

    These two religions grew together and influenced each other. Their adherents both pray, both attend services, make pilgrimages, build churches and experience revelations.

    What schism must exist in a person's mind to think that one God can't be behind both?

    Cultural and political differences will never end. But here we have an opportunity to acknowledge each other in a realm that should exist beyond the petty squabbles.
     
  11. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    ~Dream plays with his lips and makes crazy sound~ Beebitybeebitybeebity
     
  12. Amica

    Amica Member

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    Peace--
    As a Muslim, I believe that God I believe in revealed Himself to Jesus pbuh as He did to prophets pbut before Jesus, as well as Muhammad pbuh.
    However, I do not believe that today's Christians (majority) and Muslims believe in the same God.
    Christians believe their God to be a union of three separate beings, and also they are pretty divided whether Jesus pbuh was their god or part of their god.
    Muslims do not believe that you can limit God into anything, including humans. To believe His creation to be divine is blasphemy and idolatry. He is One in our eyes, Unseen, Eternal, Omnipresent and always knows everything.
     
  13. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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  14. marcoav

    marcoav Purity is the key

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    A viewpoint

    Yes (from East to West):

    God, the "Architect of the Solar System" (cf. Genesis 1:1; there are two well recognized methods of reading this sentence in the Hebrew text), is the Source and goal of human existence.

    No (Abrahamic religions, but Eastern religions too):

    Allah in the Qur'an, previously Yahweh (Jehovah) in the Old Testament, is the moon[lunar] Deity Who, in a previous stage of our evolution, came to uplift and unite the previous various existing [uncivilized] tribes of man in each region into subsequent great nations under the Law - demanding (educating into children) obedience and sacrifice of the most precious goods in exchange of His protection for their[our] prosperity in the [material] land [that had been once promised].

    Christ, in the New Testament (New Dispensation), is the Solar Deity Who, in a new stage of our evolution, comes to unite mankind, through Love, into one great Brotherhood - He teaches compassion, forgiveness and a higher form of sacrifice: sacrifice of the self, with the promise that the new (reborn) Man will inherit the [ethereal, not material] Kingdom to come ("Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom").

    The process above described in a very brief-simple manner, and that can be understood from an earnest study of the great religions Sacred texts and the civilizations history, is called Evolution of Religion, for as the world and man evolve so also must religion change.

    Hope this may help; thank you for the attention you have devoted into these lines.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  15. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Beebitybeebitybeebity Beebitybeebitybeebity
     
  16. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    Today we're faced with stark examples of cultural animosity and distrust. Christians think that Muslims are out to take over the world and Muslims must think the same about Christians.

    But that doesn't mean that God split in two. The people are divided not by God's hand, but by our own ignorance and fear.

    And then the people split God.

    Nice going people.
     
  17. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Citizenzen, Christians are out to take over the world. It is no secret. Same token, Muslims make no secret of the fact that they believe the world will eventually be completely Islamic.

    I don't agree with the denial of reality, which I have seen brought up at least twice in the thread. If you deny the reality that there is a problem here, that problem denies you much more strongly than you can deny it. You become immaterial. The problem is not just an old hurt between friends but a dynamic ongoing disagreement. If it were just an old hurt I'd deny it, too. I'd say to forget about it. It isn't though.
     
  18. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    You mean "lightly bandaging" it and saying "peace" won't heal it? ;)
     
  19. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    indeed, but the Islamic definition exalts God above any type of conceptualisation; this is the ultimate exaltation and does not fall into the catogory of 'denial' at all, but rather is the true understanding of monothiesm [i.e no creature or image or any type of 'conceptualisation' is associated with God; God is One, without any associates whatsoever]:

    028.068 PICKTHAL: ... Glorified be Allah and Exalted above all that they associate (with Him)!

    peace :)
     
  20. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    MashAllah!; not surprising at all that you think it's right on!, for in the depth of our soul, we allready have inbuilt knowledge of it:

    The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.

    In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'

    Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".

    read on:

    Every Child is Born a Muslim

    Hope that helps

    Peace :)
     

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