One Way: the reason why Christian ecumenicalism is impossible

Don't hold back Bandit. Tell me how you really feel.

One last suggestion: ignore me.

I'd understand. I had to ignore Nick there for a couple of weeks.

But my undeniable love for that big lug dragged me back. I wish I knew how to quit him.

You have an attraction to deep thinking, long nosed, broad shouldered, Aries males. However, I am only open to women with the same interest and appreciative when some don't know how to quit me either. *sigh* What can one do? It is life.
 
Is it too late to change the name of this thread? :D

Yeah this thread has degenerated into one on bickering sessions. Perhaps it should be moved to the Politics and Society forum, but I imagine the original poster would object. Let's start a bickering session on that.

Am I singing to the choirs here? I don't normally chant slogans, but I see this as an opportunity to gain some power and influence here.
 
But my undeniable love for that big lug dragged me back. I wish I knew how to quit him.
That is not love. That is the nasty spirit of hot air debate that you cannot quit. Love does not go around looking for deliberate opposition thru bickering and picking fights over stupid stuff.

One last suggestion: ignore me.
I am certain that is not your last suggestion.
 
Dang.

It's a thread full of posters, all in nasty moods.

Don't worry.

Be happy.
 
Yet in our times there is heavy social pressure on Christians to view other religious pathways as equal to Christianity. In other words, Christians are being asked to suppress their Christian views in favor of promoting peace and harmony between all religious faiths. Christians are being told it isn't nice to criticize Judaism or other religions even though Jesus Christ himself was a heavy critic of Pharaisic Judaism from which modern Judaism developed. I bring this topic up for discussion because in the past I have run into conflict with the owner of this forum because I do stick to Christian belief that Christianity holds far more spiritual truth than any other spiritual path. I believe I am only being honest and faithful to my religion yet if I post criticism of other religious paths such as Judaism I run afoul of the forum owner's belief system that seems to think all spiritual paths are of equal value. That's his opinion.

That is right though. The owner does have a bias against jesus being the only way and bias for judaism, so you are corrrect. The belief of jesus being the only way is greatly frowned upon as part of the agenda here and you will be silenced as a new member for doing that. From that it is clear they are not all viewed as equal here. You will just have to get used to it. You are going to have some kind of bias like that everywhere you go, even if you create your own forum, you would present your bias in the same manner.

At least you had the balls to mention it. Most people just fall in line.
 
Isn't that what the passage says?

New International Version

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Footnotes:
  1. John 14:7 Some early manuscripts If you really have known me, you will know
First, I find it very interesting that some of those early manuscripts say "If you really have known me, you will know my Father as well." I don't know which translation is correct, but that means something different in English than "If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." The tenses carry different meaning.

Secondly, I believe the Christ is God's grace. The Christ is that which is the "Creative Word," through which all is made and in which God's grace is made manifest. God's grace is manifest through the possibility of life (creation) as well as through the reconciliation of humanity with divinity. Jesus fully emptied himself and became a pure and whole vessel for God's grace, thus literally embodying "the way, the truth, and the life."

We all must go "through" Christ to reach the Father. But the interesting thing is that we go "through" Him. In this response to Thomas, Jesus is not saying our beliefs about him are the way to the Father, but rather that a movement through him is the way. If we think of Christ as a tunnel, humanity is on one end and the Father/God is on the other. We go through the Christ to reach the Father. And who is the Christ? God's eternal grace, embodied in Jesus and given freely on the cross. God's grace is both merciful and just, recognizing the need for a bridge between humanity and divinity (justice) and providing for that need (merciful).

When we go "through" the Christ, we are recognizing our shortcomings, weaknesses, and flaws and we are choosing to embark on that journey that takes us from our usual state of being and, through this eternal grace of God that will guide us if we sincerely seek, walk to through this process of transformation to a state of perfection in which we unify with the Father.

When we really know Christ, whatever we call our religion and whatever scriptures we use, we inevitably are called to the process of recognizing the flaws inherent in our egoic selves and, through God's grace, finding the capacity to transcend them and therefore become united with God. We pour out that which separates us from God so that we can become vessels for God, and in so doing, God's grace is able to fill us and we come face to face with the Father. To allow God's grace to work in us is to know Jesus, who embodied grace, and to know the Father.

In short, there can be One Way- through the eternal Christ, who manifested in the man Jesus- without necessarily resulting in one religion. I think people confuse "The Way, The Truth, and The Life" with Christianity or some denomination/sect thereof, when in fact, it was the Christ.

Hope that helps explain my thoughts on the matter; I'd welcome others to share their interpretations in detail. I think it'd be interesting, like an online Bible study. :)

A broader observation as the thread has mostly devolved to slinging mud about, ironically, slinging mud... I think the difficulty with online interfaith dialogue is we aren't in person. So while we all say whatever we want and are blunter than usual (probably), we can't follow it up with a group sing of Kumbaya and a good meal. I find that differences in ideology are fine, even intolerance (in the sense of strong and avowed disagreement with) is fine (so long as it doesn't lead to oppression or mockery), but what makes people feel loved despite disagreement is sharing life. I disagree with people in my family and friends all the time, sometimes with zest and zeal and debate... but then we shrug, hug one another, and share some food. It's the hugging and the food sharing that show our love for one another, not the agreement.

Too bad there is no way to kick back with some nice pie or something after online debate. Well... I kick back with pie (or brownies, or ice cream, or...), but unfortunately sharing virtual food just doesn't have the same effect. :(:rolleyes:
 
Hope that helps explain my thoughts on the matter; I'd welcome others to share their interpretations in detail. I think it'd be interesting, like an online Bible study. :)

I think your interpretation works well for christians but it wont fly for 2 seconds in islam or judaism, I am sure you already know that though.

I think the scripture in question is the one that says Jesus is the only way to the father and then later talks about Jesus being the door and later it says if anyone enters a different way than Jesus they are thieves and robbers. That is the one that is not welcome here. I think there are a bunch of differnet jesus(es) anyway, kind of like the dating game and people have different gods and some clearly have no idea where they are headed and others do not care. I have not been convinced that all paths go to the same place and have no problem with that since I only have to answer for myself.
 
I nominate it be changed to a plethora of pointless posts.
I like it. Pretty original.

I had a free association on the bickering episode - for what it's worth:
Are you a visitor passing through who was hoping to get the answers to all your questions about the meaning of life? Were you expecting an update on metaphysics, ceremonial practices, religionist pecking orders, and maybe even a few doityourself automotive repair tips ?

Are you seeing things on this forum, the likes of which you have not seen anywhere else under the rubric of an "Interfaith Discussion Forum?" Things like blatant misinformation, devolutionary malevolence and unspeakable displays of narcissism?

You may be staring at this thread in total disbelief. And you may be staring at other threads in disbelief. If you have any doubts at all about what you are seeing here, swing by tomorrow - same time, same place - and watch it happen all over again. :eek:


 
I like it. Pretty original.

I had a free association on the bickering episode - for what it's worth:
Are you a visitor passing through who was hoping to get the answers to all your questions about the meaning of life? Were you expecting an update on metaphysics, ceremonial practices, religionist pecking orders, and maybe even a few doityourself automotive repair tips ?

Are you seeing things on this forum, the likes of which you have not seen anywhere else under the rubric of an "Interfaith Discussion Forum?" Things like blatant misinformation, devolutionary malevolence and unspeakable displays of narcissism?

You may be staring at this thread in total disbelief. And you may be staring at other threads in disbelief. If you have any doubts at all about what you are seeing here, swing by tomorrow - same time, same place - and watch it happen all over again. :eek:



I am so glad you recorded it:D.

Ok. I like it. You made me laugh:D. I commend you and respect you for your honesty and complete awareness.

I do like the Bickering Session for a name too. You are watching the Bickering Station available 24 hours a day seven days a week, commercial free. 100% pointless posts with the ultimate in bickering episodes, all day, all the time, all free, always here, live for your special interests and ritual rag. Instant, on the spot bickering and pointlessness. When you are in the mood to bicker about anything and everything, step right up to the microphone or enter one of our famous argument rooms, choose any category, and one of our specialists in bickering will assist your needs. We are the better bickerers for your best bickering pleasure. Would you like to keep that bickering box or do you want the insults behind curtain number three?



That was worth all three days of my visit.
 
A broader observation as the thread has mostly devolved to slinging mud about, ironically, slinging mud...

I personally was just toying with the idea. The fact that I was just toying with the idea gave me the impression that others were also just toying with the idea.

I wasn't aware that a real bickering session might be going on. If Bandit remembers what I said about the "Tornado Incident" (involving wil) then I reckon a nice decent discussion may develop about the difference between a real bickering session and metaphorical one.:)

I find that differences in ideology are fine, even intolerance (in the sense of strong and avowed disagreement with) is fine (so long as it doesn't lead to oppression or mockery).

I think I'd be fine with having a bickering session with someone as long as I don't start persecuting and oppressing them. I don't want to start pushing them into a corner.
 
That is right though. The owner does have a bias against jesus being the only way and bias for judaism, so you are corrrect. The belief of jesus being the only way is greatly frowned upon as part of the agenda here and you will be silenced as a new member for doing that. From that it is clear they are not all viewed as equal here. You will just have to get used to it. You are going to have some kind of bias like that everywhere you go, even if you create your own forum, you would present your bias in the same manner.

It's too funny - there's no bias here, because the whole site is built on the platform of neutrality.

However, some members have their own personal agendas and try and inject that into the forums.

It's pretty laughable, though, and best ignored.
 
That would be kind of ironic. A traditional Christian view is silenced in the Christianity forum.:eek:

But anyway holysmoke, I haven't heard much from you and would like to hear more. We haven't had much discussion or debate from you. Your ideas have yet to be reviewed.

Bandit may be right about bias from some members here, but don't let that stop you from posting.

The Admin here just wants discussion (and perhaps debate) but no preaching. Preachers who come to offer us salvation (when many of us already consider ourselves Christian) are turned away. That is what is meant by preaching to the choirs.

For the record, your views seem similar to that of long-time member Faithfulservant.
 
This shows why the question of Ecumenism is best left to the denominational level, rather than at the individual level.

Thomas
 
Is it too late to change the name of this thread? :D

Yeah this thread has degenerated into one on bickering sessions. Perhaps it should be moved to the Politics and Society forum, but I imagine the original poster would object. Let's start a bickering session on that.
Actually it seems to me this entire thread is accurately answering the original post.

In short, there can be One Way- through the eternal Christ, who manifested in the man Jesus- without necessarily resulting in one religion. I think people confuse "The Way, The Truth, and The Life" with Christianity or some denomination/sect thereof, when in fact, it was the Christ.

Too bad there is no way to kick back with some nice pie or something after online debate. Well... I kick back with pie (or brownies, or ice cream, or...), but unfortunately sharing virtual food just doesn't have the same effect. :(:rolleyes:
Ah but who needs pie when they can revel in the words and the spirit that exudes from some posts. While we've all banged at the keyboard, yelled at the monitor, so often if we take the time we are often fed such sweet mystical nutrition that it makes the sowing, weeding, watering, and seperating wheat from chaff unbelievably worthwhile.
I think your interpretation works well for christians but it wont fly for 2 seconds in islam or judaism, I am sure you already know that though..
I think the question is the definition of Christ. As discussed we don't need scripture or to know 'Jesus' to find our way...but through what we call "the Christ" salvation is found. This Christ is our language and concept and may be called something else altogether in another or even be invisible and not known yet still utilized.
IAre you a visitor passing through who was hoping to get the answers to all your questions about the meaning of life? Were you expecting an update on metaphysics, ceremonial practices, religionist pecking orders, and maybe even a few doityourself automotive repair tips ?

Are you seeing things on this forum, the likes of which you have not seen anywhere else under the rubric of an "Interfaith Discussion Forum?" Things like blatant misinformation, devolutionary malevolence and unspeakable displays of narcissism?

You may be staring at this thread in total disbelief. And you may be staring at other threads in disbelief. If you have any doubts at all about what you are seeing here, swing by tomorrow - same time, same place - and watch it happen all over again. :eek:


It is beautiful.... but missing to me what in reality can be found, with those that have ears may hear... or see or grok... To me this site is a like a diamond mine or gold mine, you have to toil for the nuggets and gems and that is what makes them all so worthwhile. To continue the analogy some may look just like rocks, and we may have to use our skills to identify them and actually do some polishing and cutting ourselves.

Would anyone want a forum or a book or a religion that layed it all on the plate for us...no work on our part? Tis the fire that tempers the steel.

This shows why the question of Ecumenism is best left to the denominational level, rather than at the individual level.

Thomas
WHAT:confused:
 
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