The Present Age Passing Away

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Victor, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    I'm AndrewX ... as well as taijasi, just want to clarify. As for "he," I don't know who you mean when you mention misuse of the term "science." As far as I'm concerned, what you see happening today ... is not true science. There is what we call "the scientific method," and it's a good beginning ... because we must all start *somewhere*. The Scientific Revolution, as other modern movements, has esoteric Inspiration behind it ... but our response to this Inspiration is clearly less than perfect!

    The Sacred Science, which has always existed, and which is in the process of (Re-)Externalization ... will look a little like today's Scientific Method, a bit like the best of FreeMasonry, but will also certainly incorporate aspects of both Art and Religion which most of us have never experienced - or certainly not on any kind of large scale, probably not even Communally. Invocation and Evocation, on the other hand, which are one branch of the Sacred Science, are pretty much known to us all in one form or another - as Meditation, Contemplation and Prayer.

    As for the phases of the moon affecting (and effecting) certain alchemical processes, just consider what I said about the Farmer's Almanac. Plant during the waxing half, toward Full Moon. Harvest after Full Moon during waning. That's something I've picked up recently ... but as this applies to inner processes and the cultivation of the Human Lotus, why would the general practice be any different, fundamentally?

    The bottom line is, the moon affects growth. Most folks probably don't know why, and I would suggest that until we - as a Race [the Human Family] - have all developed the Inner and Higher clairvoyance, much of this must remain theoretical or hypothetical. Then again, if people's meditations aren't working out too well in a haphazard fashion, or *without* taking into account what is recommended by the Ageless Wisdom, maybe it's time to consider this practical approach. If it helps, maybe that's all the clarification, or `proof' that a person needs!
     
  2. lover454

    lover454 New Member

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    You say that you have the gift of sight, but I want to tell you everyone has the gift of sight. If you really believe then whatever you want will happen, or even if you dont want it to happen but think about it hard enough it will happen.

    And all you had were dreams plain and simple. Everyone has dreams, people dream of all kinds of things: God, water, life, etc. People put too much meaning into their dreams. Also many times when you are semi-alseep your dreams seem real.
     
  3. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    i don't use terms like "true" science or "true" Scotsmen for the same reasons.

    when i speak of the term science i'm speaking of it as the empirical body of testable knowledge and, more importantly, in the manner in which Karl Popper has framed its philosophical structure and nature. it appears the author uses the term science to imply this very idea yet remains uncomfortable or unconvinced with it's purely physical provenance.

    i can't offer reasons why things are different i can only say that within the Taoist spiritual alchemy schools; up is down, left is right and North is South. it was one of the more difficult areas to penetrate of those teachings given my grounding in the western alchemical traditions and i still get invert the ideas every so often.
     
  4. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    I would say that "true" is indeed a question of subjectivity, so it's difficult to agree when such a word becomes an adjective ... rather than a noun. When we speak of THE True, however, either one has experience - to a certain degree - or one does not. Then it's just shades of gray, although I much prefer the idea [mental model] of the spectrum of visible Light ... for then we can at least begin to enter the realm of objectivity, and pretty soon the Idea of the Seven Spirits is not so very far off!

    When it comes to dreams, either these are largely meaningless for us, and get described [as a friend put it to me today over lunch] as not much more than the brain trying to make sense of stuff ... hence they are largely confusing, difficult to interpret and quite likely of little value to us. Or I think they can be quite insightful, revealing much to us about our Inner Life - the life of the Soul ... and what goes on within the spiritual world(s).

    Mostly, however, it's a little bit of both, and in between. We may be getting good, genuine `information' [ranging from Insight, direct recall of out-of-body experiences, conversations with our Teachers and fellow students on the path] ... yet all of that has to be filtered through our concrete, rational mind, through the coloring, skewing distortions of the emotional field (astral body), and finally, IF we are lucky, some small hint of our nightly sojourn may reach the etheric-physical brain. Even here, however, we are cautioned *not to strain*!

    So when it comes to the *gift(s) of sight* or clear-hearing, clear-sentience, I would say it takes years, and lifetimes of training ... before we are truly [there's that word again] in a position to rightly interpret what the Soul, working via our own subconscious - which exists within the realm of the Jungian, collective unconscious - might have to tell us. And this, even despite the necessary utilization of universal themes and ancient motifs, becomes a personal message for each of us, despite the objectivity of the worlds we visit when out of the body.

    Getting back to science, yes, I realize we have reached a certain point along the scale of progress at present. I don't think this means we must necessarily accept the same limitations as the laboratory researcher in his or her white coat, however, working with a scanning electron microscope, and confining him or herself to the five physical senses that most of us have unfolded.

    Just because I am not a clairvoyant, and just because I am not a prophet, does not mean I am unable to access, investigate, discuss and hypothesize regarding the Inner Worlds - via the innate, unfolding powers of Reason, plus Intuition. When we shut ourselves off from these aspects of our being, or when we deny that they even exist (something which really makes me smile sometimes, and other times just plain disappoints me) ... we hurt ourselves, mostly. But we also shut down conversations, and potential conversations, with those who do have access to, and utilization of, such faculties.

    Remember, science does not exist in a bubble. The scientific method, as we have come to understand it, is rather flawed ... not innately, but in the way we have tried to separate ourselves from the `laboratory environment' in which observations supposedly and theoretically take place. For the same reason that the armchair philosopher's brown study can only be so productive, ignorance regarding the future of the scientific method - and its applications - still clouds our minds.

    I believe we have demonstrated aptly by now, that the ACT OF OBSERVATION influences that which is being observed. Hmmmm.

    Likewise, even when all we're doing is sitting here, THINKING about something, someone, some idea, etc. ... lo and behold! Sure enough, we have changed that thing, person, idea, etc..

    Until scientists, philosophers, theologians, economists, statesmen, artists [who are ahead of the pack, in this respect] and everyone under the sun has come to such a realization ... we will continue to partly-at-least dwell within the worlds of illusion, maya and glamour - wherein bubble-realities seem to trump webs of connectivity, for even WEBS must undergo a gradual evolution whereby lines of neutral or `dark' influence are replaced by Lighted strands of Loving energy.

    If this is too abstract, too touchy-feely ... and hence, too un-scientific for some, then you're better off just chatting with CitizenZen, bob_x and the like. For they admire science in ways that I cannot, and in their atheism [at least one of these is an atheist, I think], I assert that they have tossed away the baby with the bathwater.

    When you can dissect the baby and FIND GOD, that's when we will believe, they affirm. And I tell you, the homonculous will NEVER give up his secret ... for he has already told you, many times over, WHERE he lives - even within the mortal, physical frame - and yet they are blinded.

    What more is there to do?

    But wait.

    Anyway, I love science. Religion was getting out of hand. The DARK AGES had practically delivered Humanity to the very deepest, darkest depths of ignorance and corruption that were possible during the preceding cycle. The Powers that Be moved through our local Heavens, They steered the greatest minds of the day and made appeal, sweeping Souls into incarnation ... and the Scientific Revolution was born. Had this not occurred, we might have seen darkness and destruction, madness and mayhem enough to make the Spanish Inquisition look like that Monty Python sketch of the same name or subject.

    The same Master [Nirmanakaya] steering certain [tremendous, Great] progress in Science from spiritual levels is said to have influenced [essentially begun, or seeded] the Spiritualistic Movement. John Edward even has a fairly uncanny physical resemblance to Him, imho. This begins to sound a bit subjective, however, and is pretty much irrelevant. I wanted to point out, though, that when it comes to modern science, I do not mean to be totally irreverent, since I see it as *literally* ... Divinely Inspired.

    Namaskar
     
  5. Victor

    Victor Silver Haired Member

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    It has started! Time is running out for everyone and we keep on playing our silly games... 130 days and counting!
    Bye!
     
  6. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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  7. earl

    earl ?

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    Don't say good-bye. Stop in and enjoy a strawberry from time to time.:) earl
    Red Barn Yoga: Zen Story: Tigers and a Strawberry
     
  8. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    I dont believe in the end of the world, what would be the point of salvation if everything was destroyed. That would defeat the whole purpose of resurrection and ascension. Lets remember Jesus body was included in this not discarded for the purpose of salvation.
     
  9. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    The whole point is to correct the whole universe and bring it back to its pre mortal condition. Bad things do happen but the creator would never allow his creation to be totally destroyed.
     
  10. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    I get the willies when someone puts a limitation on G!d ("would never allow").

    Pax et amor vincunt omnia. radarmark
     
  11. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    There are limitations to everything, even GOD. That is just a reality. God is NOT the devil and frankly it gives me the willies when people think he would do evil actions. Its about knowing the difference between GOD and the devil and when you know the difference then you know what limitations they have.
     
  12. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    donnann, limiting G!d may be part of your reality. It is not nor has it ever been part of the reality of say the Native American spiritual tradition. As an example, I have a very dear friend who is a member of the Native American Church which uses peyote as a sacrament. When a probably-well-intentioned Christian Fundamentalist got on his case one day for this he said, "who are you to say that Christ did not decide to come back as a vegitable?"

    And this devil stuff just harkens back to non-monotheistic-but-kinda-where-it-all-started Zoroastrianism. Many, many Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and Bahais (forgive me if I left out your Abrahamist strain) deny the reality of the devil. I believe the notion of a devil (like Calvinist predestination) just gives one the opportunity to weasel out of responsibility. Evil actions are human actions that are done in the Shadow--away from the presence of the Divine.

    Pax et amor vincunt omnia. radarmark
     
  13. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    You have a point about being away from the presence of the divine. The devil represents a spiritual emotion which is the opposite of gods emotion. Spirit is consciousness. God is love , the devil is hate. I do not look at the devil as a free thinking entity that can choose to be good or evil. I look at it like a virus that infects mankind on some level as well as fallen divine beings. A virus appears to be alive but its only function is to attack something that is healthy and spreads to destroy life. I believe the devil came into existance from the fallen angels , well falling and that its linked to his consciousness but its not him.

    As far as christ coming back as a veggie,thats just not how it works. A divine being can only incarnate into something that is like its own general makeup. A human incarnation shows that the incarnated being , such as christ comes from the center divine family. As you know human was created in this image.

    A veggie may be a part that extends out from christ to feed him but it certainly isnt him.

    Everything has a natural order to maintain immortal life in paradise, we are not immortal nor do we live in paradise so we are out of the natural order.
    \
     
  14. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Divine beings incarnated are subject to human frality but also have the element spirit within their cells so that they do not remain this way. These elements of spirit are opened during things like resurrection then sealed back again until the final seal opening occurs which reveals the whole purpose of the incarnation. I like to use movies as references to explain divine and human realities. The movie the 5th element, that element being the spirit I am talking about. There is a phrase in that movie about her dna being like human dna but much more with infinate knowledge. That 5th element is conscioiusness and when someone has divine origin the knowledge is within them. The female in the movie is like the arc but the purpose is to destroy the dark planet in the movie which to me represents the devil. I know its just a movie but people get their ideas for movies from actual religous prophecies ect sometimes. Seems strange that the movie is simular to a female mummy liber lintius that had a scroll around her in the form of her bandages.
     
  15. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    "Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
    Trouble no one about his religion.
    Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours.
    Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." Tecuseh

    While I do not share my friend's belief about Christ coming back as Grandfather Peyote, I respect and honor his belief. When others cannot (I think due to an exclusiveness and a wish to force opinion onto reality) it gives me the willies.

    Pax et amor vincunt omnia. radarmark
     
  16. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Well maybe grandfather peyote represents a theological view on the same knowledge all the religions have. Just because divine beings, whether you believe it or not were sent to all peoples over time it doesnt mean that they are specifically THEE ONE but rather in a group of divine beings sent. The fighting over whos savior is thee savior is stupid.
     
  17. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    As rule I agree with you, but saviours don't always speak in unity which complicates matters.
     
  18. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    The ascended ones do. Human saviors or peacemakers I understand what you mean.
     
  19. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Roughly a couple of weeks away. Any updates Victor?
     
  20. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    They do. Its a language. The holy texts all mean the same thing its just that people have a difficult time knowing what they mean because they think of the words and phrases with a carnal mind. For example: In holy texts when it talks about a beheading it doesnt mean to actually chop someones head off . It means to remove the old sinful way of thinking the carnal way and take on a new way of thinking the divine mind. The reasoning of holy texts is the problem. All the saviours know the language. In the new testament this language is called the song of moses.
     

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