Divine Intervention v. Divine Inspiration

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by wil, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hunter-Gatherer

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    "Imagine there's no heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today..."

    - JOHN LENNON (1940-1980)
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Tis another of my blessings I suppose, past dozen years of Sundays, at my church, it would be none, unless as a reference for the talk.

    We have heard the story of our preacher's mentor, she has now made her transition, but as little (four foot nothin) 84 year old preacher a homeless man banged on the door of her church in Washington, DC, and said as she opened it, "Sister I am here to be saved", to which she replied, "Well you've come to the wrong place, here we teach you to realize you have to save yourself"
     
  3. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Will,

    That's a good one. I completely agree.
     
  4. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    IG,

    I hear what you are saying, that people should good for good's sake, rather than doing it for some expected reward in the afterlife. (By the way, my belief system says people who do such things do not get a reward in the afterlife.)
     
  5. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Divine inspiration can be of two kinds; one of the revelation type and this only happens to Prophets; another of the 'influence' type and this happens with a lot of people allways

    e.g., when Allah had ordered the Prophet Moses [Pbuh] to take the message of Truth to the pharoan?, he said how is he to do this when he has a lisp problem, ALlah informed him, "you just open your mouth and We will bring out the words"

    sometimes when i come to these forums i dont know what to write, so i just begin, and rely on ALlah to make the words flow out :) and it works!; this is the second type of inspiration ;)

    Allah having a hand in evertything and divine intervention are both true and do happen; the former is true in that everything litterally happens by Allah's will allthough the actions of people do have their own free-will involved too [that makes us responsible for our actions] and an example of 'divine intervention' is, when a tyrant king Namrud went to grab Sarah [the prophet ibraheem's wife] he got paralised with a fit of epilepsy; this happened a few times every time he tried to grab her and then he gave up!

    Also, when the prophet Muhammad [saw] was once prostating to ALlah near the ka'aba, Abu-Jahel thought here is his chance to finish Muhammad [saw] off; he picked up a large boulder and was going to crush the Prophet [saw's] head with it but when he approached near, he turned back in a state of extreme fear; when asked by his friends why he did not go ahead with it, he said 'By Allah, i saw a huge camel standing there [that was not visible to anyone else] next to the Prophet [saw] snarling at me, if i took one more step closer then i was sure it would eat me'!

    one more example: when Moses [pbuh] was set asail in the basket as a baby by his mum trying to save him from phaorans soldiers, Moses' [pbuh] basket went to the shore of Pharoah himself and was raised by Pharoahs wife in pharoahs house! [ALlahuakbar!; see what ALlah can do? :cool:] and Allah did not make it occur to Pharoah that that baby could be Moses [pbuh]!
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Well that's the point I'm making.

    Sadly I think you're wrong. I see the arguments as not loving one's neighbour, not whether Jonah was in the whale or not.

    The same goes for the Bhagavad Gita. And the Sutras. And all the sacred commentaries of every people on earth.

    Unless you know how to read them.

    The God of philosophy is the Good. The God of the New Testament is Love. Who is this god of whom you speak? He seems a cruel and capricious god to me. It's not the God I know.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  7. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    I have a good question about Islam. I see simularity between your book and the jewish and christian and yes even hindu and buddhist. What is the one disagreeing factor between Islam and the other religions? If you could address each religion separately and compare it to Islam and let me know what the disagreements are it would be much appreciated.
     
  8. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Who doesnt love that song! I believe John lennon was talking about the union of bodies souls and spriits, basically what all the religious documents are saying as far a prophecy, He had an opportunity in his postion being a huge star to convey this message to those who normally wouldnt hear it through his music.
     
  9. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    I Believe the teaching of heaven and hell is basically the teaching of the knowledge of the tree of good and evil through the tree of life. Humans ate that tree back in the garden so now it has to be understood what is evil and what is good and why.
     
  10. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    That is the ONLY type of inspiration. Fantasy stories about the "prophets" are just a form of idolatry, letting the words of humans be treated as if from God.
     
  11. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Idolatry is simply worshipping something that is opposite of god.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    which arguments?
    agreed... can you tell me how you read them?
    agree.
    ???? What, that I speak, where?
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Not a Christian church, then.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    No Thomas in our church we do not believe that saying a platitude or providing a song and dance or some other method of ceromoniously claiming you've given your life to Christ is the way to salvation.

    We'll go back to those two commandments which order us to love everyone, no exceptions, and believe that G!d does as well.

    If that ain't Christian, I'll admit I don't know what is. But the best part, it ain't upto me to judge....after all I am the one with the log!!

    But your skipping the questions of two posts up. Great to see you around some more, hope your studies are going swimmingly.
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Hi Wil —
    I did reply (or thought I did), somehow it lost itself between me and thee.

    The 99.999% of arguments. (I don't think they're about Jonah).

    In the light of the tradition that wrote them.

    You say God 'has a hand' in atrocities.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    As I said then.
    "I am the vine: you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing." John 15:5

    Unless, of course, you think Christ was just talking in platitudes?

    But then if one truly loves God — the First Commandment which you seem to have overlooked — why would one want for anything else?

    You doctrine seems contradicted to me ... you want all the benefits you perceive Christianity to offer, but you want it on your own terms.

    That's not the way it works.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I believe 'I am' to be the vine. I beleive abiding in him to be larger than him. I believe he said, without the father (I am) he can do nothing. I don't believe we take any of these on their own, but in combination with the rest of his words, that we are his family, we are also sons and daughters of the most high. It is upto us tor realize this
    just? Just platitudes? What is a platitude? Something repeated so often and so long to be rendered meaningless. Yes I believe many 'in Christ' have rendered these meaningless as they don't walk the talk. They play lip service to being Christian and following Christ as the openly forget to love G!d, that heaven is in our midst and the Christ is available in all.... Jesus didn't speak in platitudes, but by his "followers" many of his words have become same.
    me, how so, overlooked the Shema? I think not. Do I worship some big bearded white guy? Do I fear the unknown? No. But overlooked loving G!d...not this panentheistic nontheistic Christian...G!d is omnipresent, can't be missed or overlooked in my mind.
    Ah, but Thomas, that is not the way it works for you. Because of what you choose to believe. That is your choice my brother. It is the way it works for me and mine that roll in the glory of G!d.

    And no we are not saved by a few words or by the blessings of someone who was blessed by someone who was blessed by someone....we are saved by our personal connection with spirit, by laying comfortable in the metaphorical lap of Mother/Father G!d.
     
  18. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Shades of Reason

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    ;)


    [youtube]vMRZ-BEDUho[/youtube]


    :p
     
  19. bob x

    bob x New Member

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    Or think that this is not "Christ" speaking at all, but a later group asserting control: "You can't be saved without Jesus" has the subtext "And you can't get to Jesus except through US!"
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    That's a very convenient escape clause though, isn't it?

    And really, the statement is entirely logical and coherent with the rest of the materials — the last thing Jesus was saying was, "Yeah, whatever floats your boat."

    God bless

    Thomas
     

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