Spiritual Stages Advice?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Persona, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    7 through 12 is a progression. A merging of ones lower self with ones higher self. As above so below.
     
  2. Princely

    Princely Interfaith Forums

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    You know not what is right if you knew right you would know me but as it is you reject the One who lives and therefore you shall die in your sins. For if you do not come to believe I Am you will surely die in your sins.Scripture has it;

    "All those who do right shall rise to live."

    'I the Lord speak the truth, I say what is right."

    "You've been told what is good and what the Lord requires of you, only to do what is right love goodness and walk humbly with the Lord your God".

    "Speak the truth.Gods word is truth".

    "The one who comes from above is above all; He who is of the world belongs to the world and speaks in a worldly way. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. Whoever accepts his testimony certifies that God is truthful. The One whom is sent by God, He speaks the words of God. His gift of the spirit is not rationed. The Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. Whoever believes in the Son possesses eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God".
     
  3. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    That would be believing in the resurrection and true meaning of the cross. Who believes in an old man who tried to kill jesus....not me...he died ....jesus lives.
     
  4. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    I do know Christ, I speak from that mind which Jesus says to find, which in modern times is frequently called the Christ consciousness.

    Indeed, he says to be perfect even as the father, this is the reality of Christ consciousness, although it is considered a behavioral command, yet how can the formless behave at all?
     
  5. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Ph. 2:5: "For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus"

    and

    Mat. 5:48: "Be therefore perfect, just as your Father who is in Heaven is perfect."

    The first points at the universal mind, Christ-consciousness. The second references God's oneness, for only that is perfection, all else is lacking in some way.

    When these are realized, then it is possible to say: Jo. 10:30: "I and my father are one".

    These are the only ways in which Jesus is distinct from you, and as he says Jo. 14:10: "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works", because it is that which is truth, not the physical form.

    If Jesus has any authority at all, why has he said he was sent?

    Indeed in Jo. 8:54: "Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me."

    This is as I say, although not even this egoistically, for I am nothing without God who is within.

    Why will he glorify me? Although certainly I am blessed.

    Life itself, simply existing is a blessing!

    How often are you thankful for this?
     
  6. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    JESUS never said that he alone was everything. As a matter of fact mary magdalene prophecies come from what he tought mary magdalene about everyone having one true opposite.
     
  7. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    That mind which was in Jesus is the mind of God, that perfection is to go beyond the opposites, to realize you are not half but rather the whole. You go on saying we should look for our true opposite, but what is the wholes opposite? Nothingness.

    You can go directly, or you can take the long road, but that oneness is the goal - insisting you are half is illusion, you are settling for less than you are.

    Find out what you are by dropping all you are not and seeing what is left...

    The miracle is everything is left, but only when you are not.
     
  8. donnann

    donnann Active Member

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    Jesus never ever said anything like that. As a matter of fact everything I have been saying about opposites is the secret gospels he told mary magdalene. That there is no such thing as beyond opposites and that its all about opposites. It was hidden back then because women were treated unfairly and abused back then. They were not even allowed to enter the temples.
     
  9. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Lunitik, Thomas, NiceCupofTea, Princely, Donnann & Emil... :)
    Thanks for the comments.
    I'm going to process them more before I respond further.
     
  10. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    I have shown you the verses which say it :confused:

    You are telling someone that has gone beyond the opposites that it is not possible, do you understand the absurdity of this?

    I invite you to see for yourself, I have detailed how to do so, yet still you insist it cannot be done... simply go deeply into my words about oneness and you will see it can be so. Forget what you have read in the scriptures and simply try my device. I am telling you it is what Jesus pointed to in the scriptures, but you cannot see it because you lack spiritual eyes...

    This experience, if you are willing to partake, will supply them. It is after this that you can even see the beauty in the scriptures, at least this was so for me. Before it just a crazy man talking nonsense, maybe you memorize, maybe you will repeat it to make points, but overall you cannot understand what is said.

    Scriptures come from this place, but they are nothing by comparison. How can any description be very accurate? Try it, have a friend describe somewhere you have not been, try to imagine what it is like based on their words. Now simply go there and see whether it is at all even similar, it will not be.

    Such is the problem with scriptures, the one they are about is long dead, you are relying on the opinions of those who do not understand themselves.
     
  11. Princely

    Princely Interfaith Forums

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    Yes, you must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    This is what I give to those who follow me and my brother Jesus;

    (Father) I have given them the glory you gave me , so that they may be One, as we are One, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as One, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
    Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world. Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.
    I made known to them your name and I will make it known, that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in them."

    Jesus and I are One in the Father. Whoever hates me hates my Father.
     
  12. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Thanks for helping me explore this, Lunitik.
    These past experiences are in the past, I realize... yet they affect my view, approach & feelings about sex now.
    I think it's easier for men to be "in the moment" than it is for women. Yet, women tend to more easily grasp the big picture. Difference in brain wiring. This is why we need to learn from each other.
    I don't know how to just drop them, though, Lunitik. If I did, I would have. I've tried pushing them aside, I've also struggled with anger, shame etc. Sometimes I feel like I just need a break (from sex) to sort it out - but that doesn't happen.

    It is awesome, Lunitik.
    I don't remember hearing the 2nd part you included.
    My grandma was very big in AA & I associate the serenity prayer with her.
    I also see it as the pure love that never fails - because through courage to change what we can or serenity to accept what we can't - either way, things will work out for the greater good.

    The past is not dead - it is in every fiber of our being, until we deal with it. I haven't figured out how to deal with it yet.

    Why don't you consider thought illusion?
    Do you think thoughts are 100% the whole nondual picture?

    I like how you explained the spiritual path as purifying one's being... or peeling back layers to the "diamond in the rough."
    I don't think it's possible to reside in enlightenment... maybe it is, but if so, I imagine it's extremely rare, because you can't function in this world while meditating in deep meditation. As much of a bad wrap the ego has, it's very needed. I've read that schizophrenia's spiritual reason is one's spiritual advancement getting too far ahead of one's ego advancement.

    Nice way of explaining spirituality's incredible patience, compared to most of us in the ego state.
    Sometimes I wonder - what's so important to want to go through hell... to purify myself? Is it going to be that much better?
     
  13. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Hi Thomas,
    Jim Marion (who I got the stages from in "Putting on the Mind of Christ") grew up heavily involved in the Catholic church & was a monk, & attorney (nice balance, I think).

    This is really interesting, how you explained systems and knowledge... & how faith is the basis of progress.
    I agree!
    Without faith, you can do nothing... not even type on the keyboard! :)

    I've read his, "Power of Now" but do you know if Tolle has written more specifically about this spiritual journey?

    I see what you mean - and there are times when I get so excited to realize deeper meaning of scriptures. Yet scriptures are not the same for everyone... Muslims - the Qur'an, Jews the Torah, Buddhists - Sutras?, Christians the OT, NT... Mormons the OT, NT, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History & General Conference Speeches given by General Authority... Incidentally, I grew up Mormon & am currently surrounded by Mormons on all sides so I've come to question not only Mormonism but religion in general. I want to think for myself as much as possible, instead of blindly accepting others' thoughts, even if they've been accepted for centuries as scripture. I believe in the spirit of the law - but I can see how the only way we can think & communicate is through symbols... including letters that form words & words that form new perspectives, or "good news." And I have no intention of reinventing the wheel in any way.

    I still appreciate scripture - & part of it is because I grew up with it, so that's what I resonate with. I'll have to relook at Luke 24 - intriguing that one name of the 2 disciples was left out. I also love Luke 17:20-21... "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." It also goes along with the name of God... I AM that I AM. God is only experienced within us.

    Thanks again, Thomas, God bless you too.
     
  14. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Thank you.
    There are few that I know & trust with this type of advice.
    That's why I'm looking online.

    I like what you mentioned about following your heart/intuition.
    Lunitik isn't perfect (nobody is) - but he seems to have something to offer.
    If he gets out of hand, I think I could handle him.
    I have a black eye in Karate. :)
     
  15. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    ... Yeah, maybe...

    1st seal, a crown is given - birth/life - Archaic & Magical Consciousness
    2nd seal, a sword is given - ability to discern good from evil - Mythic Consciousness
    3rd seal, balances are had - questioning myths - Rational Consciousness level
    4th seal - power was given - can see many perspectives - Vision-Logic Consciousness
    5th seal - Shown souls who were slain for the word of God - fears conquered for love - Psychic/Spirit Consciousness
    6th seal - earthquakes, sun black, stars fall - see our imperfections "bursts our egotistical bubble" - Dark night of the senses
    7th seal - silence, then "all hell breaks loose" with wars & plagues - Confronting "feelings buried alive"- Dark Night/Confronting Shadow Self
    Christ reigns - Spiritual union with God, Our Creators - Christ Consciousness

    Beautiful! As above so below...
    Since we remain the same sex our entire lives (at least naturally)... this seems to support the natural inclination of opposite sex attraction & incorporating their essence into our own - not just physically but also psychologically.

    That scripture you quoted, I imagine the word TRUTH in place of "my."
    It does seem like a high price to pay for those who do seek truth over going with the crowd. Yet, it's the only way to have a "sure foundation" that won't fall in the face of storms.

    It sounds good... but I think there's a reason why many don't seek it... It's hard. It means confronting our own worst enemies (ourselves).
    Often, I want the easy way... the path of least resistance.
    Yet, what motivates me to push forward toward truth & God/Spiritual progress - is when I experience pain or watch others experience pain. There are a million remedies for trying to deal with pain - but probably the only one that will get at the root cause is this spiritual quest.
     
  16. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Well put!
    "Adam (& Even who represent us) fell that men might be & men (& women) are that they might have joy."
    Gospel = being born again to good news, which IMO is the story of Jesus' birth, baptism, death & resurrection (why else would he tell us, given he spake not except in parables?)
     
  17. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Good point!
    I think this is one of the twisting done by those in power (Constatine, Councils etc.), to keep people submissive through shame & fear.
     
  18. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    Unless they, like Jesus, "descend below all things so that they may raise others up."

    The word of God is spirit, light & truth... which can only be discerned through:
    1. Thought
    2. Feeling
    3. Courage to experience it for yourself (faith without works is dead)

    The word of God is not just the words of other imperfect human beings who lived centuries ago. The word of God is any symbol that helps us resonate with & get closer to God, or that which is GOoD.
     
  19. Persona

    Persona Interfaith Forums

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    I think many have encountered love - in one form or another, but I agree that few if any have encountered real (unconditional) love, because our condition itself is conditional. :)
    To a church group, I brought up an idea about learning to love each other better. I realize we must find love within us, but I also think that the only way we can see ourselves (to heal) is through others. So I suggested that instead of having history lessons in church, that at least part of the time be for small group or one-on-one discussions. Simple, right? People thought I was crazy! They said it would never work because you can't force people to care. To me, ideally, church/religious gatherings - are primarily for learning to love others as ourselves.

    Yeah... love others AS we also love ourselves.
     
  20. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Let me ask, which is easier, do you think?

    Recalling and considering these things, or simply not?

    It will look difficult, it is because some part of you wants to bring it in though, you will have to see why this is - have you simply not found a man you are completely comfortable around?

    The past resides solely in our minds, it is not related to the present in any way shape or form, we have to bring it in.

    Perhaps this is where you are getting stuck? You are not aware they do not have to be carried? If you have a couch you want to get rid of, will you carry with you all day long? You will just put it in the dumpster and forget about it. Why are thoughts different? It is because they are closer to you, yet still there is a distance, can you find it?

    Our beliefs form the non-dual experience we have, but of themselves they have no power, it is our own being which gives them that power. They are not illusion because they are really there, yet the illusion arises because we identify with the thoughts, we think it is our thought - in reality most thoughts we have are community concepts, none have originated with us. The ones which are loudest are the ones we have identified with in some way, we must drop this identification.

    Simply be aware that the thought is happening, watch the thought, you will see it is not actually you. If it were you, how could you possibly watch it? Think of it like the eye, it is the only thing the eye cannot see is itself. The religious inquiry is about finding who that internal eye is...

    Certainly it is rare, but it is entirely possible. It is possible to function though, you have a wrong understanding of what meditation is though. Meditation is the awareness that whatsoever is happening is not happening to you, it is to be aware of your center while observing the circumference. When this space between the two has happened, you are enlightened. You will also understand what Jesus means when he says "It is not I who do these things, but the Father acting through me", this is actually always the case, even for sinners.

    Schizophrenia is about splitting the mind and not knowing which is you. I have explained that part of spiritual practice is to create this divide between mind and being, mind will continuously arise to try to gain control though, it will be in a great panic as any actual person reacts to threats on their life. What happens sometimes though is that the person becomes identified with the minds struggle, it is the work of a guru really to ensure this doesn't happen, to try to console the seeker and to reassure them which is actually them. Even this struggle, your true being watches - it is actually quite bizarre and rather humorous if you can maintain calm through it.

    Better simply has no meaning in this state, it is simply pure bliss, peace, love. The state is impossible really to even fathom, it is the answer to every deep why which each of us carry.
     

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