The Divine Connexion

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by radarmark, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
  2. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    110
    I believe your assessment, but I need the historical records to back it up. Where can we find those stats?


    In the 1887 russian play by Anton Chekhov's, "Uncle Vanya" Astrov says:
    "What will people think of us, 100 years in the future?"
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
    let's see, you believe me yet argue against me....and you ask for links 15 minutes after they are posted??

    you are confusing my brother.
     
  4. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Hare Krishna Yogi

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    110
    "I believe you if you say so"

    none-the-less

    You MUST provide the proof.

    Even your own personal subjective approximation of Proof will do.

    You are confusing me with your lack of Proof.

    If no proof is forthcoming ---I must presume you are NOT speaking truthfully.

    Until proof is provided you force me to Take your opinion as Fact.

    Why would you expect me to except anything with blind faith?

    <BTW, I just now saw your Post #41 ---I will review it. When logged in and while drafting a post ---newer posts are not shown unless one re-freshes the screen ---upon which one may be made to re-log in yet again. That is why it seems I wasn't responding to [or dis-regarding] your post.>
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,739
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    World War is a phenomena of the 20th century, with a scale of violence, including violence directed at civilian populations, that is unmatched in history.

    You're wrong, Wil. The past pales into insignificance against the casualties of the Somme. Then factor in the Holocaust, Stalin, Pol Pot ... all within a 100 year period.

    Really? What growth, exactly? I say again ... self harm, suicide, therapy, medication. More than 1 in 10 kids under 10 in the US are on tranquillizers. There are concerns that Western civilisation generally is showing signs of an incipient schizophrenic condition that worries psychologists ... the figures are epidemic, you call that progress?

    The direction we are going will see the earth exhausted, the environment irreparably — as far as we're concerned — damaged, and the human population thinned dramatically, if not extinct, with the next couple of centuries.

    Wil, for the love of the future, look. Our generation is, I believe, the first in many generations that will hand on the planet to its successors in a worse state than when we inherited it ... and we are paralysed by the cost of what it will take to put that right ...

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  6. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    its not lost just forgotten.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,739
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Well said! Absolutely ... and I suggest we're forgetting more and more each day ... our pursuit of technology is one of the most remarkable events of self-delusion ever ... look at the kids walking round listening on headphones, or checking their texts, updating their facebook profile, tweeting their friends, reading or responding to posts on IO :)eek:) ...

    I attend presentations by artists and graphic designers here in the UK, and their message is a common one ... "Put your technology down, and open your eyes!"

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  8. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Thomas

    modern life seems so complicated so many distractions.

    just to clarify

    we cant get away from the divine even if we try, but we can forget !
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
    Ok, gang.... Again, I said past 50 years...not past century.... 50 years 1962-2012 doesn't include world wars nor the mao famine from 58-62...

    onto Technology....

    I am thankful for it....we are all utilizing it right now and I would not be discussing any of this with any of you if it wasn't for it. I appreciate all your perspectives and have learned so much...tech is wonderful.

    On my tablet I have the bible, the metaphysical bible dictionary, the gita, and over a hundred other books...that I can read, annotate, cut and paste and email at any time!

    I can DL mp3s, podcasts, to listen to while I am driving, and as to art, I can see the great artists in incredible detail w/o going to the Louvre, and googleearth into Rome, the sphinx, the pyramids....tis just incredible...

    And NONE of it gets in the way of me sitting down and meditating, or going to church on sunday, or praying or visiting with friends, or seeing local art, plays, comedy, museums etc.

    Tech is not a problem....what people choose to do with tech may be....but if we choose to tech can provide the divine connection....

    One of my favorite analogies is we connect with G!d through the modem Jesus...get a faster baud rate!
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
    Yes, Exactly!!
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,739
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    OK. So effectively, you're limiting your position to your own lifetime, which on the whole has been not too bad, so everything in the garden's lovely?

    Nice move.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
    Yes Thomas, since my reign on earth, I have instituted a much more peaceful environment. I have a long way to go, since I am constantly blocked by you ingrates turn after turn....

    enough dripping sarcasm to match your current indignation? I'm hoping so....

    Let's both get off our high horses....


    What I said....what I'll repeat.... we are working in the right direction...the past half century has been per capita one of the least violent times for man on this planet....

    And I for one am hoping it is a trend and as a population we can work to continue and improve on it....

    And since we can often judge by 'results' I am saying that these results are indicating a shift toward more enlightenment, more divine connection, rather than less...that we are raising in consciousness and by that raise we are judging ourselves and others by a higher bar than we would have 1-2-3 or 1200 years ago....when burning cats for sport or whipping slaves, or raping women was the norm, and nobody batted an eye about it....

    Now I'll take off my rose colored glasses, return to my pedestal and inquire of my minions....

    Now which of you ingrates again wants to see it go differently???
     
  13. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,310
    Likes Received:
    566
    Wil, I remember you and I discussing this before, and like then, I disagree. Or rather, I don't agree with you. I don't know if things are getting better, how does someone measure that. And would everyone agree on those such proposed premisses. I can only guess, but if the answer is 'no' then I don't see the point in saying that things are more peaceful overall.

    When thoughts like these enter my mind I often stay content by stating, for myself, that things are different, no better or worse. I haven't come as far in constructing my perspective of the world that I can judge right or wrong. And I'm feeling content with that right now.

    Wil, you are pretty optimistic about the future in general, aren't you. If I remember correctly, you don't believe we will run out of space and the earths resources. Is it a fundamental piece in your beliefs, that things get better?
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
    It isn't hard to discover that there is less violent crime and less war and less murder than there was centuries ago...
     
  15. Qu'otar

    Qu'otar charlie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, no more slavery, oppression, child-labor, industrial war, genocide, ...

    How about in the West, where governments slowly strip freedom from people by increasing regulated behavior for non harmful actions while increasing state debt to the point where the house of cards WILL fall. They are predicting a 10 year optimistic recovery at this point...seems we still have indirect crime against humanity.
     
  16. Qu'otar

    Qu'otar charlie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do! It is a disaster. The poor are still oppressed, more so by relative comparison than before, as the rich think they rule the world. The last will be first.
     
  17. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,310
    Likes Received:
    566
    Well, we just disagree. What I don't understand is why you compare such a short time, 50 years, with the totality of human history? Throughout history every region must have had peaceful periods stretching 50 years or so. At times, they might even have coincide with each other.
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,739
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Ungrateful bastards!

    Sadly, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and my response was quite serious, but not indignant.

    In short, to repeat, you're determining the measure, and discounting data, to ensure the answer you're looking for. It's 'bad science'.


    I think you're working on too narrow a time frame, and limiting the date far too much, to make any useful determination.

    I marched against war in the Middle East, Wil, and I hold that same view, but I do not leap to the preposterous position that everything's improving. You're losing the War in Afghanistan, and it will be a mess when you walk away ...

    Really? I don't see that at all. I think the shift is to do with economics and the fact that you can't win the war you're in.

    Had you (the US) looked at history, you would have known that.

    How do you know, you ignore history.

    I think we have, with regard to consciousness and spirituality, said nothing that was not said by the Greeks. Read Plato. Read Sapho. I think, generally, we know and understand less than Aristotle.

    I think ancient man had more affinity with the stars than we do today, despite our Mars explorers and Hubble images. Most people today don't even look at the sky, and at night, they can't see it anyway.

    I watch people on the train listening on headphone and tapping their computers ... they live in an imaginary world.

    We're still doing it pal, don't kid yourself.

    We here in the UK are absolutely horrified by the US penal system. It's slavery under a different name, but it's still, largely, black people working for white people, for nothing and in dreadful conditions. And the average expectancy of a black teenager in LA? A shorter life span than a black slave on the plantation ... so figure that in.

    God bless

    Thomas
     
  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,030
    Likes Received:
    2,057
    Yes the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were both rediculous, we sent many of our men and women to their deaths for no reason and killed many of theirs along the way....

    Asking for justice rather than seeking vengeance after 9/11 would have done much to prove my point...quite unfortunate.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,739
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    There's no correlation between the dubious 'progress' of the socio-political scene as you like to view it, and spiritual development.

    Certainly from a humanist point of view one could argue progress, although I doubt a humanist would be overly happy with the scene as it stands today. Child mortality has turned down for the first time in decades, but that, like your narrow 50-year timespan, may well yet be just a blip.

    It would if you assume assume the humanist and/or the atheist does not care for justice. I rather think they do, so it really doesn't make your point at all.

    God bless

    Thomas
     

Share This Page