'You will burn in hell!'

Frrostedman

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Most Christians don't believe in most of the OT....they are into 10 commandments not 600+, and only want to talk about stoning gays...not the line above or below it...

we all pick and choose...while we accuse others of picking and choosing....
Most Christians don't believe in most of the OT? I've never met a single one. But yes, I have read, with much sadness, that Liberal Christian Theology is on the rise, all over the world.

Maybe it's just me, but, I can't fathom how someone can call themselves a believer in and follower of Christ, but totally reject anything He ever said about hell, or His Father (being the OT God), His teachings - affirming the relevance and reality of OT Scriptures, etc.

It would be like me calling myself a Feminist because I recognize that women are beautiful; while I reject all other Feminist affirmations.

Once again, we're staring New Age thinking in the face... this cherry-picking of biblical verses to substantiate one's personal, individual preferences on the character of God. Person A says, "Oh no, God would never do that..." so he/she simply strikes it from the list of credible verses.


  • "My personal Jesus never died on the cross. That's all made up. He walked through India and continued teaching and helping the poor."
  • "Oh yeah? Well my personal Jesus was a big fan of the homosexual lifestyle. And all that stuff He supposedly said about being saved from harsh punishment? All that's made up. Everyone is going to be saved, and there won't be any judgment. My Jesus never said a word about hell, because it doesn't exist!"

    And so on.
What I want to know is, where does it end. Once you reject substantial portions of the bible, you might as well just toss it in the hopper and be done with it. And how can someone claim to believe in Christ Himself, when they reject most of the Holy Book that corroborates His very existence?
 

Frrostedman

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I've argued, with myself, the distinction between Justice and Revenge, and the line I've drawn is actually the emotional satisfaction.
Not an accusation, just giving you a peek into my mind.
Yes I understand. There are probably many who disagree with me on this. But after taking the entire bible in--OT & NT--I can't help but conclude that God has a personality, has wants, experiences emotions, etc. Some may think I am ascribing human characteristics to God. But I think it's the opposite... again, after taking in the bible as a whole. We are told that it is we that were created with characteristics of God. A lot of people say a perfect being can't experience emotions like joy or sadness. I say.... why? Why must a Creator--in order to be perfect--be just an emotionless bump on a log; a robot? Why must personality or emotion mean weakness? I just don't see it that way.

And after all that... yes I do really believe that God does gain personal satisfaction when the playground bully gets his ass kicked. I'm just sayin' ...

Just like you, I'm just expressing personal opinion and not accusing you of being wrong. :)
 

Quirkybird

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And after all that... yes I do really believe that God does gain personal satisfaction when the playground bully gets his ass kicked. I'm just sayin' ...

If a deity does exist one would fervently hope it would be more evolved than to give way to very human faults and failings, which the Biblical deity has x 1,000,000!
 

wil

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a figment of your imagination
As a Christian, G!d and Christ are in the bully...trying to find a way to express. The schoolyard bully....just like the adult bully who acts out....is in need of love, and has not learned how to ask for or express love. The only way they know to get attention and respect is through violence and intimidation... odds are...learned at home.

You thinking Jesus would gain personal satisfaction from someone in such need getting his ass kicked? (after all, it may be an ass one needs to ride in on later)
 

NiceCupOfTea

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scripture or specifically the Bible is a collection of books written by various authors about their experiences with God. Now people often get things wrong and just dont get God, same today as it was hundreds of years ago.
 

Quirkybird

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scripture or specifically the Bible is a collection of books written by various authors about their experiences with God. Now people often get things wrong and just dont get God, same today as it was hundreds of years ago.

There is nothing substantial to get about the deity.
 

Frrostedman

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And after all that... yes I do really believe that God does gain personal satisfaction when the playground bully gets his ass kicked. I'm just sayin' ...

If a deity does exist one would fervently hope it would be more evolved than to give way to very human faults and failings, which the Biblical deity has x 1,000,000!
Again, why is the feeling of satisfaction considered a fault and a weakness?
 

Shibolet

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I have been posting on another forum where some 'born again' Christian posters seem to be salivating at the idea of heathens like myself burning in hell forever and ever. How sick is that? They also keep saying the deity is a 'God of love', can't they see that condemning people to burn in hell for mere unbelief would be the act of an evil psycho?

Yes, you are right; therefore, you don't have to lend your ears to these absurdities. Hell-fire does not exist. What exists is hell in the sense of the grave. The hell wherefrom one will never return. Hell-fire is only for those who believe in it.
 

Shibolet

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And after all that... yes I do really believe that God does gain personal satisfaction when the playground bully gets his ass kicked. I'm just sayin' ...

If a deity does exist one would fervently hope it would be more evolved than to give way to very human faults and failings, which the Biblical deity has x 1,000,000!

If a deity does not exist, what caused the universe to exist?
 

Shibolet

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I went to add this but the timer ran out on my ability to edit.

This is what I should have put before I went on my rant:


*disclaimer*
In no way am I suggesting that God is the author of evil, or makes people do evil things. I am merely suggesting that sometimes God just lets evil people "run with it" for a while. He turns them over to their own desires. There is a big difference between God handing down justice to those who deserve it, and God making them do bad things for the sake of punishing them. The latter is not what I subscribe to and I had to put out this disclaimer in case anyone accused me of it.

Tell me, have you ever heard about the attribute of Freewill we were granted with? It is completely ignored in the "Disclaimer" above. God is love; God is good. Evil does not exist as it needs to be made and, God has nothing to do with it. Man is the one responsible for all evil done on earth and God does not intervene on man's attribute of Freewill. When Cain was about to murder his brother Abel, God appeared to him in a dream and said that it was up to him to do what was going on in his mind, but it would all depend on him. (Gen. 4:6,7)
 

Aupmanyav

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If a deity does not exist, what caused the universe to exist?
Therefore, God. Answer to all questions.
When Cain was about to murder his brother Abel, God appeared to him in a dream and said that it was up to him to do what was going on in his mind, but it would all depend on him. (Gen. 4:6,7)
What is the use of free-will if it allows one brother to murder another, and God does not even try to stop the heinous act.
 

Shibolet

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Therefore, God. Answer to all questions.What is the use of free-will if it allows one brother to murder another, and God does not even try to stop the heinous act.

Sorry Aupmanyav, but your question conveys the message that you do not understand the definition of Freewill. Freewill is not an agent that allows one to do this or that but a concept aka a human attribute that defines freedom in man to do whatever he pleases, notwithstanding that fact that he becomes liable to suffer as a result of the consequences thereof.
 

Aupmanyav

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"In the course of time Cain presented some of the land's produce as an offering to the LORD. And Abel also presented — some of the firstborn of his flock and their fat portions. The Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but He did not have regard for Cain and his offering."

I am not surprised. I would also do the same. I am a glutton.
 

Shibolet

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"In the course of time Cain presented some of the land's produce as an offering to the LORD. And Abel also presented — some of the firstborn of his flock and their fat portions. The Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but He did not have regard for Cain and his offering."

I am not surprised. I would also do the same. I am a glutton.

The point of that allegory was not to express a preference for a type of sacrifice in spite of another. In fact, according to Jeremiah 5:22, the Lord never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. Sacrifices were allowed because, after 430 years of daily contact with the system of animal in the religion of Egypt, the Israelites could not conceive of a religion without sacrifices. If Moses had not allowed sacrifices, the exodus from Egypt could not have been possible. So, the point was the granting of the attribute of Freewill. (Gen. 4:7)
 

Aupmanyav

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Exodus 8.1: Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh and say to him, 'This is what the LORD says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me.
Exodus 8.26: But Moses said, "That would not be right. The sacrifices we offer the LORD our God would be detestable to the Egyptians. And if we offer sacrifices that are detestable in their eyes, will they not stone us?

In Exodus 8.1 your God is only talking about worship. How did it change to sacrifices in 8.26? That means worship of God always included sacrifices. Moses could have said that he will go to three-days wilderness and pray to his God.

Where is the problem of Free will in this?
 

Shibolet

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Exodus 8.1: Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh and say to him, 'This is what the LORD says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me.
Exodus 8.26: But Moses said, "That would not be right. The sacrifices we offer the LORD our God would be detestable to the Egyptians. And if we offer sacrifices that are detestable in their eyes, will they not stone us?

In Exodus 8.1 your God is only talking about worship. How did it change to sacrifices in 8.26? That means worship of God always included sacrifices. Moses could have said that he will go to three-days wilderness and pray to his God.

Where is the problem of Free will in this?

No problem. One can do whatever he wants; just not to claim that the absence of animal sacrifices in Israel means that the religion of Israel must have been replaced by for instance Christianity as we have in Hebrews 7:12,22. Originally, according to Prophet Jeremiah, the Lord never ordered sacrifices to be made. (Jer. 7:22)
 

Aupmanyav

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So who is wrong? Moses or Jeremiah? Both prophets! One is lying. Are they all lying? Is Jesus lying? We have a saying in India when you cook rice, you check only one grain. I find the grain false. What is to prove that they are all not lying? Just making up what is convenient to them at that time.

Note: I am not against Christianity as a personal belief. What rankles me is preaching (which perhaps should not be done in this forum).
 
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