Can you believe in reincarnation & still be a monotheist?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Amica2, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Just to be clear, you are citing Hinduism as evidence that monotheists A) can believe in reincarnation and B) that G!d is a person.

    Again to be clear, there is only on G!d in Hinduism...and no lesser gods (lesser persons).

    Note, I have no issues with your belief, just trying to get on the same page.

    Confused completely at G!d being a person with super powers
     
  2. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    God is a cosmic supercomputer or God is a Person.
    Or there is no God.

    Superpowers are commonplace with common folks...it's called technology.

    God's material creation is a cosmic technological display.

    God's Person is the First Person.
     
  3. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    PS: I do have a favorite verse. I have to find it.
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Again...the original question...

    A question to monotheists, specifically abrahamic monotheists.

    I don't mind you answering from a Hindu monotheist perspective on a biblical/Quranic question I am just confirming you believe Hindus believe there is only one G!d (aka monotheism)
     
  5. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    wil, if you think about it, the extreme of evil is very devilish isn't it?, you have some sadists, some serial killers and outright vampires and satanists amongst the people so where does this influence towards evil come from if it is not the devil itself?
     
  6. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    The Holy Quran ofcourse!
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    From themselves... Can't blame this crap on others...just humans.
     
  8. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Hi Wil,

    I agree. I think people do bad things because of the normal human tendency towards selfishness and self-centeredness, rather than because some cosmic negative force is compelling them to do bad things. The idea of "the Devil made me do it" is just a way for people to not take responsibility for the bad things they do. My concept of religion is all about taking responsibility for what we do.
     
  9. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    We are fools. I am a fool. Fools are famous for their stupid acts.

    I ask for a citation. And all I get is a demonstration of conceit. Thank you Elmer Gantry
     
  10. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    not blaming it on others as humans follow the devil out of their own free-will, so we are to blame
     
  11. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    lol ur right there!

    there you go:

    Nay, when (the soul) reaches to the collar bone, and it will be said: "Who can cure him (and save him from death)'' And he will conclude that it was (the time) of parting (death); And one leg will be joined with another leg (shrouded). The drive will be on that Day to your Lord (Allah).)(75:26-30)

    He is the Irresistible over His servants, and He sends guardians (angels) over you, until when death approaches one of you, Our messengers (angel of death and his assistants) take his soul, and they never neglect their duty. Then they are returned to Allah, their true Protector. Surely, for Him is the judgement and He is the swiftest in taking account.)(6:61-62)
     
  12. jaybird

    jaybird New Member

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    most all the Jewish sects in the days of Jesus and the 12 believed in pre existence. with exception to sadduccees who only believed in the physical world.
    Essene Jews taught a form of reincarnation.
    Origen, one of the early church fathers taught reincarnation.
    Jewish and Christian mystics still teach it to this day.
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jaybird —

    There's a lot of websites that insist on this point, but really it's not 'case closed' and nowhere near as certain as we'd like to think.

    Certainly Origen's theology was often genius, and often skated close to the edge. The Church Fathers believed that the Word of Scripture was true, and that their faith was reasonable, and therefore could be reasoned philosophically. They were nearly all Platonists by training, and at times their Christianity seemed remarkably Platonic, their Platonism remarkably Christian. It's a fine line. Platonic Christianity will inevitably lead to questionable beliefs — Arius for example — whereas Christian Platonism has produced some of the most lucid theological voices in the Tradition: Augustine and Aquinas, for example.

    There was a time when I might challenge and denounce the above point by point, but those days have passed. All I will say now is be careful what you read on the web, look to what is being said, who is saying it, what sources is the argument based on, and then try and double-check those sources. The misrepresentation and fabrication surrounding Origen by the pro-reincarnationalists is a textbook example of 'fake news'.

    As ever, as long as people think that reincarnation means "I" get another bite of the cherry, we're really into a misunderstanding of the original doctrine in its own context, let alone how it might appear in other traditions.

    To understand Origen's ideas about the migration of souls, you'll need to look into the Greek ideas about metempsychosis.

    The history of the doctrine is uncertain, and some would claim therefore that it was imported from Asia. Personally I like to think it arose naturally, from the observation of nature. Man of Antiquity thought cyclically, so it's hardly surprising his speculations would be along those lines.

    Orphism and the Eleusian mysteries appear around 6BC, then through Pythagoras, Plato and on...

    One thing I might throw in — the belief that man might reincarnate as an animal, insect or other is worse than condemnation to a period in hell. Logically, as far as kara is concerned, once you step below the human threshold, you are ••••••. There's no way back, as animals are fixed in their nature. It's just one of the many populist teachings on reincarnation that I find chilling.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Animals are fixed in their nature...

    I find your one more thing is the most specious of your post... But knowing you, odds are you have a basis for it. Can you expound? In this wonderful amazing world of floods and plagues and G!d doing both the horrendous and the miraculous what would limit her powers so that this could not be part of the plan....

    "She turned me into a newt....I got better."
     
  15. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    Anima = Soul in Latin & Italian.

    Anima = the initial letters of the word animate.

    Yes of course. And too an animal would rather be re-born as another animal rather then spending epochs as a stone.

    The idea is that there are vacancies to be filled by a living soul ---providing facility to perform actions that best suit the resident soul.

    And worse still is to interrupt a pathetic soul residing in an animals body by raising him in a factory farm, or a free-roaming farm owned by hippies; or being yanked out of the gigantic watery ocean by posh passengers aboard a yacht TO BE EATEN in a celebration.
     
  16. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Ah, but wouldn't the once trapped soul have been released upon the fish's demise and those posh passengers only eating a soulless carcass?
     
  17. jaybird

    jaybird New Member

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    Origen was for sure hard to read, i remember him being the one teaching rebirth into other worlds similar to this one. was Plato a bad guy? wasnt Plato and many of those other greek schools doing exactly what Jesus taught, ask seek, knock? was Arius a bad guy? he questioned a man made doctrine, im ok with that. his works and the source text he used were destroyed, most all we know of him comes from rome, his enemies, not the best source for truth.
    if my children made a mistake i would give them another chance )bite at the cherry), my Father in heaven loves me more than that, strange He would punish me forever and ever for making a mistake .
     
  18. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    A murderer is trapped inside his body. While he is trapped he continues to break other laws and trespasses upon other's lives.

    "I the Jury" is not a goal we should aspire to.
     
  19. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Ok, but I was talking about the fish not the fisherman.;)
     
  20. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    Being trapped is a temporal state.

    Are you hinting that we can liberate the soul from bondage by...killing it?....eating it?
    [Is not that what the terrorist* deigns to do?]

    [*worse still is the terrorist that does his actions out of sheer ignorance w/o any notion other than self-designed insperations]

    OTOH, by capitol punishment, a murderer is forced to sin no more. And by capitol punishment, a murderer's actions are not subsidised by the civilian populous.
     

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