Can you believe in reincarnation & still be a monotheist?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Amica2, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Found this:
    In his book What the Buddha Taught (1959), Theravada scholar Walpola Rahula:
    And this:
    And Zen teacher John Daido Loori said:
    So, quite simply —

    Buddhists do not believe in reincarnation. Rather, they believe is that the skandhas, or aggregates, remains ... or as I see it, that we make the world and the next generation inherits that world, what they have to live with is what we bequeath to them, and so on ... 'the sins of the fathers will be visited upon the sons for generations' ... what passes from one to the next, according to Chogyam Trunpa Rinpoche, is our neurosis – our habits of suffering and dissatisfaction.
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    . How is that blind faith?

    They are saying they don't know (no faith required) and then saying this is our postulate, and here is our understanding and proof. Here is our method....that is all fairly self evident.

    In other religions we have that theism gap...this is what you can't see or prove...but other folks wrote about it a couple hundred generations before you....so believe it...there is the required blind faith.

    I think in reincarnation falls into that realm of the unknowable that we argue about.

    Sort of like choosing between rebuilding in a flood zone, starting over someplace else, or arguing whether Chinese tech or Harp caused the hurricane to go thru your town while saying climate change is a myth.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Who believe in reincarnation?
    It is a central tenet of all major Indian religions, namely Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism. The idea of reincarnation is found in many ancient cultures, and a belief in rebirth/metempsychosis was held by Greek historic figures, such as Pythagoras, Socrates, and Plato.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    So it appears...bottom line theism (mono, poly or atheism) and reincarnation have no correlation... Certain people, religions or beliefs within each heading have their own understanding, which differs from others.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    First half of this discusses reincarnation in Islam. http://www.adishakti.org/_/reincarnation_in_islam.htm

    Second half is quotes...

     
  7. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    Poor Thomas.

    There is repeated reincarnation until nirvana is achieved.

    ... or as I see it, that we are imprisoned until liberation is achieve, and good behavior assists one in shortening their incarceration time;
    and bad behavior got us imprisoned and keeps us imprisoned.


    Who thinks that our Father in Heaven created sons that are only figments?
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Without proof, how is it not?

    Then what do they know?

    Postulate, yes, understanding, yes, but proof ... no ... where is the proof?

    Not really. Again, the method is a means of achieving an end, and the end is not proven, and has to be accepted on faith.

    And in Buddhism we have the 'Nirvana' gap ...

    The Four Noble Truths can neither be seen nor proved, according to their presentation. And they are what Buddhism stands on.
    1: All existence is suffering. Not in my experience. Suffering is rare, and mostly caused by poverty.

    2. The cause of suffering is craving. Not really, there's far more suffering in the world caused by hunger, disease, accidents, illness, etc., etc.

    3. The cessation of suffering comes with the cessation of craving. See 1 and 2.

    4. There is a path that leads from suffering. Most people would say that's money.

    I'm not disputing the Noble Truths, by the way, I'm just saying they are neither self-evident nor proven. They are if one believes them, but really it's a reasoned faith, but it's blind in that the believer cannot point to an empirical fact and say 'there'.

    LOL. Buddhist texts are older than the New Testament, and were written down at least 400 years later ... that's some serious blind faith!

    Again, I'm not arguing the principles of Buddhism, I'm suggesting that the 'blind faith' argument applies to all religions.
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Sorry — don't believe it. Not at the level of the individual.

    We create our own prisons, they are not there ... they are all part of the delusion ...

    I don't.
     
  10. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    But in Buddhism, everything we think of as 'I' is ephemeral and illusory, so there is nothing really there to pass on into another life.

    This is my whole point — what we think is not necessarily what they are saying.

    Check this out
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Ah the blessing of all religion... Find an argument and you can find evidence to prove both sides.
     
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  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    By evidence I mean snippets of scripture, scholars, denominations, or webpages swearing this is the way.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Christians used the bible in the US as the reason to keep slaves, to keep laws on integrated marriage, all of which today (some of them admit were specious...while they trot it out again to rally against homosexuals and marriage.
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I am well versed in your issues, Wil, but can we please stick to the point?
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Yes, you can be a monotheist and believe in reincarnation...

    This is undeniable.
     
  16. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai

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    Those darn Fundamentalist Buddhists.:D
     
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  17. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    Offerings to the Ancestors

    "Most of the historically known practices of ancestor worship in Japan are adaptations of Chinese customs.

    "Japanese rites, like those of China, consist of elaborate funerals and many commemorative rites at home, temple, and gravesites. A Butsudan (family altar to ancestors), which displays tablets with inscribed ancestors' names, is present in many Japanese households.

    The association of Hinduism with reincarnation is well-known, but this connection obscures a long tradition of ancestor worship. The ritual texts of the Vedic traditions describe in detail the procedure for several forms of ancestral rite."

    "Shraddha" is the ritual offering of Vishnu Temple Prasadam [pre-sanctified food] to the departed soul yearly on the date of death ---such food is prayed upon to reach the departed [in pergatory] and in the offering the departed will 'continue' to take the benefits of eating the Prasadam.
    This would be akin to taking communion, after death has occurred.

    The Sanskrit word for the entrusted steward to perform this rite is called:
    Putra
    [the vernacular word for, 'Son'. Literally, 'one that delivers their father from the planet 'Put'.]

    These term, 'Putra' is the source of the tradition to have at least one son that will enter the holy path of life; or alternatively, a son the achieves moksha at the end of their life. For the tradition further holds that such a successful son delivers 10+ generations of his own family line. This is the idea of a Perfect Son (Putra).
    So the good son will at minimum send Vishnu-prasadam to the departed ancestors, via mantra, so they the departed can be purified, even before the son achieves moksha; or as a back-up plan if the son does not reach moksha.
    But done yearly to keep the departed ancestors receiving grace via a third party.

    This is called the "Shraddha" ceremony.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  18. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Active Member

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    Bhaktajan II said:
    There is repeated reincarnation until nirvana is achieved.

    Thomas the real issue is that man & science cannot produce Life in a laboratory.
    Science cannot produce Life-force for chemicals.

    Soul = the Life-force. And Life-force's character is consciousness.

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    I agree in that re-incarnate is to bring all the trappings of the past life along with you to the next life ---This is a myth. Except for God.

    Here is my comparison:

    A Soul is a fresh Battery. If the Battery is in a techno-fancy flashlight that fell and broke ---the battery will be removed and placed in a 99 cent plastic flash light ---and viola! The Battery is born again ---with no memory of the old broke fancy flashlight it once inhabitated.
    A footnote is the the battery case has energy that was put into it from an outside engineer. The battery is a limited small mechanism and needs to be inserted into a body-frame to act out is purpose. Even after some good service it can later leave the body-frame and its energy transmigrates [inserted into] to another body.

    All body-frames are lifeless unless a battery is inserted. The battery needs a body to act ...and the battery likes the chance to shine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
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  19. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    The only thing I would like to add is what you have pointed out previously: laymen may have a different understanding to a theologian. So what is a Buddhist.
     
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  20. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Good question!

    Someone who believes in and follows the teachings of the Buddha?

    As in any tradition, there are those who identify themselves as such, but actually don't really follow the teachings.
     
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