LGBTQ Rights and Society

Gatekeeper

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Tolerate is quite a few notches below acceptance.

I don't like it, but if I have to deal with it...

You are correct, but then when push comes to shove toleration is sometimes all we have left, and that too is ever increasing. I mean, there's only so much a person, people, society can endure. I've always been on board with equal rights and have always accepted people from all walks of life, but when push comes to shove, my acceptance grows thinner as does my tolerance.
 

Gatekeeper

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Push and shove think: Force - verb

Just like in Sodom and Gomora is was the push and shove that destroyed that city.

I'm cool with open sexuality. It's the push shove aspect of, that destroys entire cities.
 
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wil

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What is pushing and shoving you around?

I run into all variety of lgbtq+ folk. I am a CIA white hetero male and can't see how it impacts me or my family negatively in any way.

I grew up with a family that thought Liberace and then Elston john were showmen that dressed extravagantly...discovering Clark gable and the rifleman were gay, put them in denial...popped their paradigm...I just watched in wonder
 

Gatekeeper

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What is pushing and shoving you around?

I run into all variety of lgbtq+ folk. I am a CIA white hetero male and can't see how it impacts me or my family negatively in any way.

I grew up with a family that thought Liberace and then Elston john were showmen that dressed extravagantly...discovering Clark gable and the rifleman were gay, put them in denial...popped their paradigm...I just watched in wonder

That's not what I stated, but I can feel that too, albeit unknown to me what it is. Ok, lets establish that Sodom and Gomora was about forced entry, not same sex relations. So, it isn't same sex relations that's the issue, but rather the way it's perceived.

I don't accept being with someone of the same sex sexually, but I can accept that some enjoy it. I can only tolerate so much of the: You must accept me mindset, based on a sex change from male to female they may have had. I can accept that people do and I support the decision for some to, but If they know I am a straight man - and I am, if they know I'm into being with more than one woman, but not men, then It would be nice if a little respect for my decision to be who I am and to prefer natural born woman over woman who were once men.

There's only so much people can tolerate of the "You must accept me" as whatever they changed into from and the whole "don't hate me for being what I am now … "You know you want it" type of attitude. There's plenty of people in the world who would actually prefer to be with others like them, well … aside from the attitude and personality and demeanor of some. I'm perfectly fine with most who qualify as lgbtq "folk" and find most to be stellar individuals. I prefer natural born woman who I find attractive and trustworthy. Hiding or knowing my position and not respecting my choices and/or my preferences, doesn't lend much trust in those who don't, does it? That's my issue wil.
 

wil

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Consent is what seems lacking in this discussion. It goes two ways. You should be able to accept their sexual identity. (As you indicate you have) and they should be able to accept your sexual preference. If you don't consent, that is or should be the end of that discussion without any hard feelings...

You get to pick who you have relationships with...with their consent. As well as who you allow in your friend zone.
 

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

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Consent is what seems lacking in this discussion. It goes two ways. You should be able to accept their sexual identity. (As you indicate you have) and they should be able to accept your sexual preference. If you don't consent, that is or should be the end of that discussion without any hard feelings...

You get to pick who you have relationships with...with their consent. As well as who you allow in your friend zone.

Ditto with ACEs (that's what many, if not most, asexuals refer to themselves as.) They don't want to if they don't have to (even if they have to, they don't want to.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 

OrtaYol

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So I put up with your music to make you happy? And that isn't negative? It sure ain't positive.

What if making me happy makes you happy? You know, like in the example I gave. :p


Yes my progeny, I understand you are gay and I will tolerate it.

Yipee

How about "Yes my progeny I understand you are gay and while I think this is abnormal, I will not shun you, I will not hate you, I will not cease to love you"?
 

OrtaYol

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So in the example I gave is toleration not positive.

It is toleration... so it is good that's what it sounds like. It is all anyone has a right to expect from anyone else and if I told my gay child anything else I would be lying. I view it as a flaw, no one is perfect, all my loved ones have flaws and I love them anyway, I have flaws they love me anyway, homosexuality would be just another flaw(imo) that I tolerate. What is wrong about this?

To be more specific it isn't homosexuality but engaging in homosexual acts that I view as flawed/wrong/abnormal/kinda funny.


In most cases saying "you're not perfect but that's ok with me" is seen as positive yet when it comes to lbgt community it has to be "you are perfect, I hope my sons want to slam other men when they are older, if I'm really lucky they will do so while identifying as coconuts", anything less is labelled some form of phobia.
 

wil

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It is toleration... so it is good that's what it sounds like. It is all anyone has a right to expect from anyone else and if I told my gay child anything else I would be lying.
I find that is true for actually few.

Most either flip out, kick them out, deny, or...change their ways love who they are and fight for LGYBQIA+ justice and acceptance once they get hit in the head.with a new understanding.

Very few take a middle road.
 

OrtaYol

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That is because the middle road is rarely presented to us on our favourite tv shows.
 

OrtaYol

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do you know of some better way? :p




Why do you think so few take the middle path?

That is what my user name means btw. "middle path/road" :)
 

badger

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I find that is true for actually few.

Most either flip out, kick them out, deny, or...change their ways love who they are and fight for LGYBQIA+ justice and acceptance once they get hit in the head.with a new understanding.

Very few take a middle road.
On the side...
What does the Y stand for?
 
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