A comfort with death

The Artis Magistra

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There's this much-quoted anecdote about Rabia of Basra, carrying a bucket of water and a torch, and when questioned about this, answering, "I want to quench the fires of hell and burn down paradise, so people can worship out of love for Allah rather than out of fear of punishment or greed for rewards."

I like that, hope I am retelling it properly.

I recall that story, I think that sounds close enough to any version I've heard.

I can't fathom loving a monstrosity much though, the Stockholm Syndrome hasn't quite set in yet evenin all these years of being Nature's hostage and victim.
 

The Artis Magistra

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I always thought those with a belief in heaven would have the most comfort in death and am always surprised when it isn't so.

I think there are people who believe everyone goes to heaven or some better state, even people we might consider bad people like serial rapists and murderers. I've read books by spiritists and "psychics" that say that in the life after death the murderers simply are shown their victims and say "sowwy for waping you" and that all is forgiven because everyone just feels so great that they can't hold a grudge about it and God or whatever, the Mayor of Ghostville doesn't do anything anyway. So basically if you like raping and can get away with it, nothing to worry about apparently seems to be the message there.

So I don't think the people who believe in just heaven are as worried as the ones who think judgment is possible or that we might face some weird alien force that like life itself can impose whatever it wishes due to its superior might. If it wants to gouge out a person's eyes it can and there is nothing to stop it because the only law is might and terror, just like people can't do anything much about sharks or oceans or diseases or sun burns.
 

Arif Ghamiq

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There's this much-quoted anecdote about Rabia of Basra, carrying a bucket of water and a torch, and when questioned about this, answering, "I want to quench the fires of hell and burn down paradise, so people can worship out of love for Allah rather than out of fear of punishment or greed for rewards."

I like that, hope I am retelling it properly.

Sounds correct to my memory. This is the common theme of Rabia bint Basra.
With the “fear of Hell” and the “hope of Heaven” removed from worship & communion with Allah, Death (we have found) becomes almost incidental.
 

Arif Ghamiq

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I recall that story, I think that sounds close enough to any version I've heard.

I can't fathom loving a monstrosity much though, the Stockholm Syndrome hasn't quite set in yet evenin all these years of being Nature's hostage and victim.

Maybe a little Spiritual Masochism would be enlightening ?
 

Cino

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I just wanted to point out that whatever death might mean to us individually, right now we are alive, and if we wanto to find peace, this life going on right now is the right time to go about it. It is not wise to put that off, regardless of any promised or threatened afterlife.
 
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The Artis Magistra

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How does one go about achieving the living peace? What is the state other than the living peace so one can know if they have the one or another?
 

The Artis Magistra

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My page loading here over my phone is being a bit slow and glitchy, I was unable to quote, but what is Spiritual Masochism and how would I apply it or see it applied and how might it be enlightening?

I am used to the word masochism in relation to the pursuit of suffering or deliberate continuation of personal suffering in some form. I may be doing that in some way or it may appear as such by my focus on difficulties and the negatives in my writing here possibly as a sort of spiritual masochism, but in reality I'm not actually fond of or in approval of difficulties, major obstructions, or pain of any sort either psychological / emotional or physical or especially its deliberate pursuit, creation, or extension by people unless justified by some greater good after a limited period, like exercise maybe, but I feel even such things can be done in much more moderate ways without excess to get sufficient results without excess or ascetic sort of extremes.

I'd like to know more about the term Spiritual Masochism though.

I certainly don't prefer or pursue pain, or consider it a wise or good thing or one worthy of support or approval. I consider Evil to be synonymous pretty much with pain and inducing pain in any way, and that pain is not really due to anything ultimately except in every sense The One Power, who you and I may also call God or Allah, who "makes one laugh and cry" ( Qur'an 53:43 ) in my view directly by generating the experience or vision we see of us going through that moment by moment including the thoughts as part of the overall frames of experience it generates.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occasionalism
 

Cino

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Good question, but I can't tell you the answer, and if I could, I suspect it would be useless to you. I am convinced it is for each of us to discover on our own. We can't re-live other people's lives, and even if we could, we'd not find our answers but theirs.
 

wil

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Look at those you see as more peaceful and strive to respond as they. Look to those you see as in turmoil and choose not to react as they. Everyone is a mentor, some for what to do, others for what not to do.
 

RJM

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Don't ask the world to change for you.
 
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RJM

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Is this advice to Jesus? Churchill?.MLK? I'll suggest no one else listen either.
What are you talking about? Jesus and Churchill are dead. Why would I be addressing advice to them? Did they ask for advice? What's MLK? What's your problem with the truth of my statement? Which I edited before your post. I'm interested to know what your difficulty is with my position?
 

RJM

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Lol, only every moment of every day
You really ask the world to change for you, every moment of every day?
Does that work? Does it happen?
 

RJM

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Ok. I'm getting it. That's the mission: change the world.

I accept the world as a testing ground of the soul, no matter how it appears to change, it's still the same place. Because nature is nature.

EDIT:
Is this advice to Jesus?
He did not try to change the world. He tried to show how to be in the world but not of the world.

Is this advice to ... Churchill?
He didn't try to change the world. It was Hitler tried. Churchill put up a defence?
 
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Cino

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Wil, are you trying to change RJM?!
 
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