Hate

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by juantoo3, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    He was not killed cause he loved too much, but by the sins of the world. When you say it like that you discredit the whole tale cause the point of the crucification is Christ's glorification, his glory of total knowledge, of being tempted every step of the way yet never giving into temptation. Christ did not hate his torturers, just like the bodhisatvas through time did not hate theirs, because they understand compassion in reality, not theoretically and intelectually. They actually talk the talk and walk the walk--which is the only way of practicing knowledge.

    Jesus promised more than rainbows, he declared the Kingdom of Heaven exists, that we are children of God, that we shall rest in green pastures, that all things shall be made anew, etc. etc. I dont see how Jiddu's message of us loving eachother differs from jesus' message of us loving and forgiving eachother, not judging our fellow brothers and sisters, and not practicing hate and violence.
     
  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Unlike the Bodhisattvas, Jesus was also big on baptism, miracle healing, and, yes, fire-and-brimstone, cast-out-into-the-darkness, last-judgement type teachings.
     
  3. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I'm not saying that. I'm saying love isn't going to give you a perfectly enjoyable existence in this world. It doesnt elevate you above suffering.

    Love isn't a magic carpet that floats you around above the heads of ordinary unenlightened mortals. Love is an action.

    You will bleed and weep for love. Its not a primrose path to paradise. And if you get too much in the world's face, the world will kill you. And Krisnsmurti doesn't say that bit?

    He teaches from a silk cushion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Remember it is the warriors standing sentry in the night against the evil of the adversary who enable you to go to yoga classes and sleep peacefully in your bed.

    A time to love, a time to hate (evil)
    Ecclasiasties 3:8

    It's not love or boddhisattvas I have a problem with. My problem is with the new age affectations. Believe me I've been there. Nowhere have I encountered such spiritual pride and superiority.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  5. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    Well thats what we religious people are saying for thousand upon thousand of years hahaha we've been saying this to no avail whatsoever cause people arent willing to drop their hate and violence--their deep psychological and cultural conditoning. They don't know what love is and therefore cant practice it (as we have stated before, Love is God, he who does not know love does not know God for God is Love.)


    One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

    “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

    Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

    But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

    In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’


    Further:

    9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness.
    10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble.
    11 But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.



    Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love is the fulfilling of the law.


    We are saying that it is and so we have verified through the practice of philosophy and correct reasoning. Beyond reasoning we have found out the inmense power, magic, and meaning of Love through direct experience and spiritual practice (the most important thing) Love indeed is an action; the action of embodying love, the natural state of the mind.

    [​IMG]

    You mean a chair?

    [​IMG]

    Oh, what you call a "silk cushion" is merley a hard floor my friend.

    You insinuate that he is a comfortable person who just speaks but does not practice...why do you judge so much others but not look at yourself? From a factual standpoint you enjoy more comforts than a man born born in India before 1900 (As krishnamurti was) ever could, not only that but he was the eight child of ten siblings, only six of which survived childhood, and while you are on the internet wasting time he was out HELPING people through the word of God.

    So check your priviledge, sir!

    lol hahah :) yeah that was a joke, I dont agree in judging people as present day liberal american culture loves to do (e,g; priviledge, this or that, etc)

    If this bleak view on love is what life has taught you, you must have your reasons for such view. But life has taught me the opposite. Love is the primrose path to paradise, and this is experientially verifiable, but no one will verify it, they just theorize about all these things...so the conversation really goes no where cause its all words, no one is willing to find these things out, to practice love and see how magical it is. Love is the truth, my friend. Believe me cause I've seen it! I've lived it! I would not lie to you.

    Krishnamurti actually does say that. He says it muuuch more than you have and says it in the truest sense, cause Krishnamurti speaks of facts; the fact is the world is ugly and very violent, so Krishnamurti's whole philosophy is based on reality, on facts, on the truth of how we live, not on how we imagine ourselves to live. But the conclusion is that the world is so ugly and violent because of us and are violence and ugliness. Unless we change (and we dont change, thats the problem; we never change) the world will continue to be like this.

    Haha how condescending. My brother, while the world sleeps I'm awake and in deep meditation...this is just a fact. And I dont go to yoga clases and never have (and if I did, why make me feel "less than" for it?) And trust me, the reason why I'm alive is not because of people fighting wars 'for me' which is a very American notion which you place on me and I'm not even american...where I'm from the military has a tradition of killing hundreds of thousands of citizens with each coup de etat (And there are many,) and as a historical fact they never 'defended' the country or people ever. But even if I was american, I am alive because thats God's will and it is God's will that I be a survivor, that I fight for my own life and my own salvation, irregardless of all the interconectednes which rules all of existence; my existence validates itself and sustains itself. No one lives because of 'soldiers fighting' as america propaganda has made you believe with no argument or reason. In fact the only reason people believe this propaganda is only cause they were told so by an authorative figure (the ARMY and COUNTRY! ) which spends billions of dollars in tax payers money to fund this propaganda.

    You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same. And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    My friend, the fact that you call ancient religions and knowledge 'new age' shows that you have not mastered the art of meditation and insight, therefore 'you have not been there' as you say. Only through correct effort (in christian terms it is called Faith) can you 'get there.' Only by living and carrying out the truth is the truth made manifest.

    As for the pride and superiority of others...Stories of the Colonization of America, of Holy Wars in general, of crazy christian preachers or followers who rob and kill in the name of God, who divide, who state their god is the greatest, who pilage and rape...Yeah, those new agers arent looking so scary now that we've revised the history books, is that no so? :) (Will Durant ftw!)

    I've personally never met a new ager but I much rather meet a peaceful girl obsessed with harmful stone gems than a maniac who wants everyone to be christian or this or that or the other...

    The truth is that most all only speak of religion and go to church or the mosque, they 'follow' this or that, but in reality they go against the word, they do not love eachother, they do not practice the virtues, they do not have faith. This is the fact of 'spirituality' as seen on Earth. It has a real side and a fake side. Okay: so accept the fact. There are good musicians and bad musicians, why waste time complaining about bad musicians instead of listening to Bach? Why in the world waste time condeming people's spiritual hubrice? Focus on yourself and your own pride and superiority. Dont place people's ugliness or corruptedness close to your heart. Their ugliness has nothing to do with you. This is why we practice "unattachment." We dont attach our attention towards the failures or short comings of others. Most people do. They love to get together and speak ill of others. This is why we say "attachment breeds suffering." When you speak ill of others you harm yourself. This is the truth. If you want to help the world and be righteous; help someone in need, give people the marvelous gift of a nice shining smile and of bright accepting eyes, take care of your own salvation...

    "First cast out the bem out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. "
    "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."
    "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister."
    “Judge not, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).
     
  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    So patronising and superior. Wordy too.Typical new age application of the ancient law and knowledge, lol ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  7. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Um... You seem to be confirming with your very words what RJM is saying (which was not about the ancient knowledge but a specific attitude of spiritual pride):

    Though I have to say, there is more than enough of that in the old-established traditions, too.
     
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  8. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    I seem to be confirming such a thing to you and your judgments which you cast on others. You play the game 'blemish', in which you pick the smallest things to criticize and go for that, instead of i dont know...dialogue? Philosophical argument? Say something of meaning, dont just critizise people, gosh...speaking of pride.


    Its very simple; you either know piano or you dont. The person who knows piano is not superior to the who doesnt. Similary you either known meditation or dont. But you cant claim to have been there unless you actually have learned this.

    And the proof is in the pudding :)

    Everyone here is arrogant and irrational except you guys, sure :) that makes sense.
     
  9. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    What part is patronizing and superior? :) point to it so I can reconsider if I have spoken harshly

    Dialogue is kind of pointless here as you dont respond to my philosophical arguments, you just critisize me and everyone for our percieved faults (faults you percieve and blame on everyone except yourself)

    I think its weird how you try to make me feel guilty cause I am "too wordy" as if my verbosity (a skill earned from reading) is a problem to you. This is philosophical thread, when we philosophize we get wordy. Will you please stop juding everyone for anything. Cant you just be nice? :) is it really so hard? I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, really, I simply make and point towards philosophical arguments and truth. I am a philosophy teacher (your next mean comment: "oh I hope you dont talk like this to your students, judge, judge, condem") I dont know how to navigate a conversation focused on how I am a phony for some reason never explained. Supposdley I am new age and that is wrong and I should feel guilty, cause you judge new age people, but in fact I am not that. You want me to be that for some reason, but I am not that :)
     
  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    And I am not what you want me to be either. I have nowhere said it right to hate people. I said hate evil. We seem not to be discussing anything because what I'm hearing is a lecture from someone who is intent on teaching me.

    If you are not a new age type, I apologise. I'm not American.

    To me Krisnamurti is the face of Theosophy, bought over from India and coached and schooled by the early theosophists.

    You can venerate him if you like. I think he waffles platitudes. Did you check out the Ramakrisna book I posted earlier?
     
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  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Goodnight. It's late here in England, where I now live after being born and spending 60yrs in Africa
     
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  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Patronizing and superior, isn't that like the three fingers pointing back at yourself?
     
  13. Beautiful

    Beautiful Active Member

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    Ok, I can dig that :)

    Ok, sorry for putting words in your mouth, my brother. I think you are right, 'hate evil' is Ok and definitely it has its place. But a step further is to say 'love your enemy, love everyone.' I'll go with Jesus on that one because I know for a fact that a mind that has hate on its consciousness is defiled, and that a pure mind can't hate, not even its enemy--not even Trump.

    And if I ever sound like I'm teaching call me out on it, its Ok. I dont want to 'teach' in that sense of the word. And btw I think you actually are right about me being wordy haha I like when people call me out on reality.


    But he's not the face of theosophy though. At age 20 Krishnamurti cut his ties to theosophy which basically was child abuse by todays standards. They forced him to be a 'messiah' and to do all these weird things when he was just a child. And when he was old enough to be independent he rejected it and said 'I am no such thing, leave me alone.' His exact quote was; "I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect ... If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others.

    I dont venerate, I think he's beautiful, and so I share his image whenever I can just like I would with Jesus' image or the buddha. And yeah I know of Ramakishna and I read the text you sent (its really good thanks for passing that my way.) I identify very much with Ramakrishna's story and his experiences and it was very reasuring for me when I read about him and his spiritual practice. What do you think about him? :)
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Ok. But that Krisnamurti pathless land thing just doesnt mean or say anything to me at all. He was schooled to say stuff like that and just carried on. Anyway. To me religions are like maps. They are not the truth in themselves.

    People who get fixed and ritualustic and rigid that's their choice. It works for some. Each to their own.
    Well I sent the pdf of a long book. It is something to dip into. He lived in a temple in India and people came to him. He owned nothing at all.

    He didn't do the lecture circuit. Definitely not new age prosperity stuff. But that does not seem to be your thing anyway. Sorry if I got you wrong.

    Best regards x
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  15. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    Point taken, nobody likes to be criticised unfairly.

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating, I think the saying goes? (I'm not a native speaker).

    So when I read ("eat") your post and come upon something I want to know more about, or am in disagreement with, I'll write a reply. That's discussion, no?

    I will watch my tone, thank you for calling me out.

    Regarding meditation: there's still this chapter twenty-something of the flower garland sutra, which I'd love to through with you. It is to meditation what I imagine a variation by Bach must be for a pianist.
     

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