Past, Present, Beyond?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,858
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    There is power and majesty in a temple of any religion. It is a work of craftsmen over decades, all giving the best of their skill for God.

    It is a vaulted space of power and silence.

    But even a quiet and simple Methodist chapel has a special sense of holiness.

    Yes, you can kneel in your lounge too if you want. Or in a forest. If you ever kneel.

    No-one says you have to go to the temple. But don't think that not going makes you a better and more intelligent person than those who do?

    EDIT
    Not aimed at any particular person here. But if the cap fits ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,460
    Likes Received:
    1,881
    ... or themselves.
     
    KnowSelf likes this.
  3. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,858
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    Unfortunately it's usually the quiet people in the middle who get it. The ones who don't deserve it. Like the peasants in wartime. That's an analogy. Those who just want to get on with their own quiet lives.
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    Wouldn't expect anything other of you, chum. Any chance to stick your thumb in the eye of a church ... self-righteous doesn't even begin to cover it.
     
    RJM likes this.
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    And yet ignorance abounds, all the more. And that 'we' excludes a significant number of the global population. Admittedly, outfits such as Google and facebook are gagging to get at those 'untapped markets' ...

    That displays so much stereotypical prejudice it's breathtaking.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    Here's something to think about:

    The Profumo Affair:
    In 1961 it came to light that John Profumo, a government minister and Secretary of State for War, had been enjoying himself at country house parties and had entered into a brief affair with a model/hostess/prostitute Christine Keeler. It also came to light that Keeler may have been simultaneously involved with Yevgeny Ivanov, a Soviet naval attaché and therefore of GRU, Russian military intelligence.

    The subsequent scandal, Profumo at first denied any impropriety, by his subsequent admission and resignation from govt and as an MP. The repercussions of the affair damaged the reputation of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister also resigned later.

    Cut to today:
    It has emerged that Boris Johnson, then the Government's Foreign Secretary, returned from a summit meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels held in the wake of the poisoning of the Russian defector Sergei Skripal by KGB agents.

    Less than a month later, in a highly unusual break with protocol, slipped by his personal security detail (MI6) and flew out to enjoy a party at the mansion of Lebedev, an ex KGB agent who got out of Russia with a considerable fortune. The party was held at Lebedev's mansion in Italy, where he owns a mountain. 'This' side of the mountain is Lebedev's, the other side hosts the mansion of another Russian expatriate, with close connections to Putin.

    It's not the first time Johnson has been Lebedev's guest.

    Other celebrities have attended parties there. The have spoken of an 'anything goes' hedonist atmosphere, of the multitude of beautiful East European young ladies there to entertain guests. Reports say the parties are the equivalent of Silvio Berlusconi's 'bunga-bunga' parties although there is no suggestion of child prostitution.

    Johnson denied any meeting, but subsequent statements released say a meeting between Johnson and Alexander Lebedev, a former KGB officer, did take place, though he insisted there was nothing was out of the ordinary.

    This amid ongoing disquiet as to why Downing Street suppressed a secret intelligence report on the threats posed to UK democracy by illicit Russian activities in Britain. Johnson had been expected to approve publication of the 50-page dossier, compiled by the cross-party intelligence and security committee, before parliament was dissolved on 5 November. Senior Whitehall sources close to the committee have told the Observer that the reason the dossier was shelved may have been Johnson’s relationship to Donald Trump and what the report says about the US president’s relationship to Russia.

    A source also described Downing Street’s decision to block the report as 'startling' and said that every reason that No 10 had subsequently put forward to explain the decision was 'absolutely bogus'.

    This story has not made the mainstream media beyond the Guardian/Observer reportage. The BBC ignores it. In the UK a press release by Jennifer Acuri, stating: "Boris Johnson cast me aside as if I were a gremlin" is widely seen as a carefully-timed distraction to cover the more explosive revelations ...

    So:
    In '61 we have a minister who had an affair with a call-girl, who was seeing a KGB agent, and so he resigned.

    In '19 we have a Mayor of London, a Foreign Secretary and now Prime Minister who is implicated in sex-parties at a millionaire mansion owned by an ex-KGB agent who is the neighbour of another pro-Putin millionaire, and moreover the UK minister had face-to-face private meetings with said KBG agent and saw fit not to inform or follow MI6 protocol ... and result ... nada ...

    Speaks for itself as far as moral values in office have declined.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,305
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    One doesn't. But the church and its liturgies encompass mysteries beyond the norm ... that's why.

    Good Lord, An Act of Faith! :D
     
    RJM likes this.
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,888
    Likes Received:
    633
    A place devoted for the worship of G-d is frequented by angels :)
    There is also huge benefit in being part of "the flock" .. it is
    so easy to become marginalised, being 'fed' lies by satan, who obvioulsy
    wants us to be astray .. a lone wolf .. a loser, like himself!
     
    Thomas and RJM like this.
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    2,495
    I asked.why one must goto a church to kneel before G!d
    Oh give me the redwood forests, watching glaciers calving from a cruise ship,.standing on overhanging rock looking at the glacial carved remains of half dome and el capitan...I could go on and on...

    The buildings, Notre Dame fire...mean little to me vs that in nature...or the millions without shelter and food tonight.

    This is where the discussion loses me.

    As does the stories of sex scandals by politicians...the sex scandals by kings and queens, despots and religious leaders have gone on unbridled for centuries....all of time...and the simply continue today...they have zero increase in the past 40 years and nothing to do with church attendance. Imo
     
  10. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,858
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    But do I sneer at the temple of nature, or deny you the right?

    Churches/religions do most to help the poor and hungry.

    EDIT
    Anyway the restoration of Notre Dame has more to do with a historical building of the City of Paris than with the church. It's a cheap shot, imo
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    Thomas likes this.
  11. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    219
    Abdullah ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, (pbuh) said, “Prayer in congregation is better than prayer alone by twenty seven degrees.”

    (Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī & Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim)

    I believe and feel that group worship enhances the intensity of worship, such as Salah (Ritual Prayer) and Dhikr (Remembrance) meditations - a group consciousness seems to be solidified, manifested and maintained. When a particular place is established solely for that purpose it seems to resonate with that vibe, which can be felt upon entry and makes entry into that expanded state easier - more accessible. And Allah knows best !
     
    Thomas likes this.
  12. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,858
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
    Matthew 18:20
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    2,495
    Lol, I could care less at the hysterical nature of buildings. If they rebuild it with wood for hysterical preservation I will lmao...

    Sneer? I did not bring up the when was the last time you kneeled in church...ask Kaepernick how how kneeling goes...don't you know? It is a sign of disrespect.

    One mans trash another mans treasure...here.that means OK,.there it is a Nazi hand sign.and for the deaf it is 8.

    The dance of tradition is obfuscation, the reason we have etiquette is to be able to turn our noses at peasants...
     
  14. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,858
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    It was addressed to someone who called me the worst kind of fake for doing so. Although that was not his intention. Why do you hate the idea of kneeling before God?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  15. Arif Ghamiq

    Arif Ghamiq Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    219
    I very often kneel before my Woman and kiss her feet.
     
    RJM likes this.
  16. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    197
    I agree, It is sad many people who attend church are closed-minded and uneducated about themselves and world-life dynamics. You may recall the old hell, fire and damnation so called messengers of the past?

    Perhaps what is worse is the sense superiority and power entrusted to clergy and the sheep-like intelligence of congregations. Cult, Children of God, Christian minister named David Berg establish cult based on anti-establishment ideology, infamous for their belief in open sexual relationships and as means to attract more followers. Encouraged sex with children claimed to be natural and right. Now known as The Family International, sounds appealing doesn't it? Family is good, right?

    Heaven's Gate, UFO cult. Founders claimed they traveled to earth in a UFO. Founded 1970's, believed human soul is carried in a spaceship into the other dimension. Leaders encourage followers to abandon all possessions, detach themselves from family life and emotions, and give up sex. Heaven's Gate made news in 1977 when rumored a UFO was following Hale-Bopp comet: all members committed mass suicide believing the UFO would carry their souls to heaven.
     
  17. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    8,858
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    Sigh ...
     
  18. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    197
    Are you saying the more people praying the greater the chance of prayer being answered? I don't know about that, it seems to me that God chooses how to answer prayer
     
  19. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    197
    so sorry did not mean to put you to sleep


    just messing with you
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  20. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    197
    Why does Allah know best?
     

Share This Page