What denomination or sect are you?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by wil, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Sorry, but I don't believe you...we all like some truths, maybe even most. But yes some truths that go against us or our paradigms we have issues with.
    I don't think belief or conjecture has much of a place in discussion of truths.
     
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  2. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    You may be right. There may be no truth ;)
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Neither one sounds appealing to me.
     
  4. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Of course it is true and it is absolutely simple. We die and disintegrate, there is nothing left of us, and there is nothing that we can do about it. Only stories will remain for sometime, later they too will be forgotten. Like it or don't like it, it is your choice. Deny it if you so desire and live in untruth.
     
  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    And that can be a depressing, life-denying outlook to a vast number of people.
    So, a simple truth can be quite destructive to someone not prepared to deal with it. Contemplating it can be dangerous. "Memento mori" is not something to be taken up lightly, even if it is dead simple, excuse the pun.

    I believe this to be the case for other vistas on truth as well. Our general unwillingness to approach them also has a protective function.

    In summary, I don't think it works for most people to just give then simple truth and expect them to happily run with it.
     
  6. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Beautiful

    “Everything that is good is God. Whether it manifests in nature or through noble qualities in human beings, it is God whom we are beholding. God the Beautiful is manifest in the synchronised scenery of nature. His breath is heaving in the wind, His divinity is smiling at us in the flowers. The qualities of love and peace and joy that grow in the garden of human hearts are reflecting His goodness, His beauty.

    He who looks for evil sees evil everywhere. He who looks for goodness sees goodness everywhere. Let your eyes behold only that which is beautiful, so that the ugliness of evil will disappear from your consciousness. By seeking out evil, by being negative and affirming to yourself negative thoughts, you see this world as a forest of fear.

    By seeking goodness, being good, and affirming good, you see this world as a garden of beauty. The Bhagavad Gita teaches that he who thinks negatively and beholds evil in the world is the enemy of his Self, and the Self acts as his enemy. And he who beholds only goodness is a friend to his Self, and the Self acts as his friend.[BG 6:5-6]

    … So in this world seek only that which is good, do that which is good. Constantly seek God instead of indulging in negative thoughts and actions, and you will find peace of mind and happiness in your life. Sometime you will have to rid yourself of evil. Why not now?”

    Yogananda Paramansa
    Self Realization Fellowship Temple
    June 1 1947
    The Divine Romance
    Vol 2

    So I am not in disagreement that for many people 'see no evil' is their way to God. My problem is when anyone claims theirs is the only way to God. I believe God knows every heart and guides every soul that turns towards Him. Regardless of place, time or faith.
    Best wishes
    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    The floor under me is solid. That's all I need to know to operate in nature. I need to know it won't disappear under me, to get on with the daily business.

    On closer inspection it is made up of atoms. On closer inspection the atoms are made of nucleii and electrons, with mostly empty space between them. On closer inspection even the atomic particles themselves are not solid, but composed of 'energy'.

    So what is this 'energy' and what has happened to the 'simple truth' of the solid floor?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Works for me beautifully. No depression ever. "Sanch ko aanch kya?" (Put truth in fire, it is not affected - Hindi proverb). Let people make stories about it.
    Well, I do not think we understand that as yet. Energy, Space and the fundamental forces. They are all related and the key of existence and non-existence is in them. Perhaps our future generations will understand this better. Universe can arise out of nothing, it can dissipate into nothing. Only this does not require 'special pleading' that God or universe are eternal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  9. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Nothing has no properties, it is not emptiness, it is not a void. It is not even an invisible pink unicorn. Emptiness is emptiness. Nothing simply is not. Nothing can arise from nothing ...
    Ditto.
    Agree. But Spirit cannot not be rejected either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  10. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    I think the simple truths tend to be intensely personal. In the case of physics at the subatomic scale, it means my body is made up of weird stuff and lots of emptiness, rather than the familiar comfortable skin-covered flesh and bones. But I don't need to go that deep to be potentially freaked out: inhabiting my body, there are more living cells that are not my body cells than there are of my "own" cells. Or up one level, whose thoughts am I thinking all day? Can I even call them my own if they are practically entirely made up of ideas suggested by external sources, advertisements and other people's opinions and so on? Again, contemplating such things can be deeply unsettling when approached without respect and grounding.

    Again, in summary:
    Because going directly to the very simple truth is not a very comfortable thing to do for the majority of people. Too upsetting, too challenging of who we think we are.
     
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  11. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Good for you! I'll have to revise my "I've never met anyone who likes the truth" then.
     
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  12. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Wait . . . The universe is comprehensible? That requires as much faith as, say, life after death, a belief the past exists, and other “outlandish” ideas.
     
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  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    We do not yet know all properties of 'nothing'. Are there inherent properties which cause Quantum perturbation?
    You mean whisky, vodka? Yes, they cannot be rejected.
    Who knows? We may come to know more about it. Sure, there is life after death, not for the being, but for its molecules. They are star-dust, they would last even after the earth is vaporised.
    The Hindu God Rama says (Yeah, I am a strong atheist, but if we come across a wise saying we have to accept it):
    "Satyam eva īśvaro loke, satyam padmā samāśritā l
    satya mūlāni sarvāṇi, satyān na asti param padam ll"

    https://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/ayodhya/sarga109/ayodhyaroman109.htm 2-109-13

    "Truth is god in the world, all virtues reside in truth. All are rooted in truth, there is no station higher than truth."
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  14. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    What? :)
    Can intelligence arise from the non-intelligent .. if so, how?
     
  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Well, that will require courses in evolutionary biology and chemistry.
     
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  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Yes. In timespace. Not in nothing.

    The Kalam argument. For the existence of a (first) source.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalam_cosmological_argument
    'Yet' assumes one day we will know?
     
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  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Time and space expand / shrink.
    Nothing itself may be the source. (Wikipedia not available at the moment).
    Possible. We cannot say that we will never know. That too will be wrong. 100 years, 500 years, a 1000 years. we have just started.
     
  18. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Nothing cannot be the source of anything. There is no such thing as nothing.
    We cannot assume that we will, either?
    Nothing can come from nothing. The universe exists. Therefore the universe had a beginning/source.
    The Kalam Argument

    .
     
  19. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much sums up the current discussion in my opinion.
     
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  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    If a baby in the womb was conscious enough to reason, it would know that it could not exist outside the womb, beyond the reach of the umbilical cord.

    I would hear sounds and sense vibrations from somewhere outside its bounds of existence.

    Then one day it would be ejected from the womb and born into a far wider reality ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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