Corona and you!

RJM

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I'll check it out. Thank you.

Unfortunately as always it's the hard working little guys who suffer -- who put everything and years into building their small/medium businesses, etc.

As I said before, the Gvt wage assistance is welcome, but alone not enough to enable businesses to survive six months without trading -- and once they've gone, they're gone.

I believe that after the end of June restaurants and hairdressers etc, should be allowed to decide for themselves whether they want to open, and people can decide for themselves whether they want to visit them.

If a person wants to see his grandchildren, let that be his own choice. The NHS is now equipped to handle covid.

The lockdown should be about preserving the NHS and not used for wider social tinkering, imo.

So ... now I'm going to make sandwiches and go for a long walk in the quiet Devon countryside for the rest of the day :)
 
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wil

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It ain't quiet round here anymore... construction sounds, traffic is back, our state is opening, I already miss the birds chirping...

We'll see how the world has prepped, we aren't even thru the first wave yet....

Me? I can't look at my aunts, uncles or mom and choose which ones I am gonna condemn to death or into the hospital's that don't allow visitors and provide less than adequate info on patient status.

Hralth workers aren't just stressed, they.are also dying of the disease, and of suicide...better crank a bunch more out of the closed unis before we lose many more.
 
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Thomas

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Yes, although the figures in COVID wards are easing, I don't think the toll it's taken on healthcare workers is resolved yet ... they, if anyone, have worked without a break throughout this crisis. They need a break.

But this is the latest from our Neoliberal Economy

It states:
'Countries could soon face a ‘wave’ of multi-million dollar lawsuits from multinational corporations claiming compensation for measures introduced to protect people from COVID-19 and its economic fallout, according to a new report.

Researchers have identified more than twenty corporate law firms offering services to mount such cases, which would seek compensation from states for measures that have negatively impacted company profits – including lost future profits.

Measures that could face legal challenges include the state acquisition of private hospitals; steps introduced to ensure that drugs, tests and vaccines are affordable; and relief on rent, debt and utility payments.'

So there you have it. As nations struggle to get their economies back on the road, they'll be hit by a 'second wave' of lawsuits from rich, money-grabbing corporates who always want more ...
 
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RJM

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Sure. My laptop has gone belly-up blue screen of death and can't be repaired till after all this over, so I'm typing and reading on my phone. But I will read the articles soon. Best wishes
 

wil

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Sure. My laptop has gone belly-up blue screen of death and can't be repaired till after all this over, so I'm typing and reading on my phone. But I will read the articles soon. Best wishes
Was it Covid? Or another Virus? The Blue Plague, wow I thought that was all but erradicated with windows 7, or was it Linux?

I just upgraded back to a laptop after a year and a half of phone only. My brain still has issues with the larger screen but I am trying to work my way back to a desktop. A cell phone screen still gives me sooo much less trouble.

China just shut down two cities with new outbreaks and 100 million people.

RJ, what makes you think the NHS is prepared?

I think we are gonna soon see the construction of permanent covid hospitals or covid wings in smaller town hospitals.
 

RJM

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Was it Covid? Or another Virus? The Blue Plague, wow I thought that was all but erradicated with windows 7, or was it Linux?

I just upgraded back to a laptop after a year and a half of phone only. My brain still has issues with the larger screen but I am trying to work my way back to a desktop. A cell phone screen still gives me sooo much less trouble.

China just shut down two cities with new outbreaks and 100 million people.

RJ, what makes you think the NHS is prepared?

I think we are gonna soon see the construction of permanent covid hospitals or covid wings in smaller town hospitals.
I'm windows 10. I don't like windows 10. And my inept attempts to fix it have probably made it much worse, lol.

I'm glad you're gradually recovering. I find it hard to read long articles on the phone.

Wil I know the NHS will be at least far better prepared by the end of June. When it first hit they knew nothing. 50 000 retired NHS workers volunteered to return to work in April. Around that many. New temporary facilities have been built and funds made available, etc.

I know thousands of people with families are going to be jobless if the lockdown goes on beyond that -- especially in the aviation and tourist and restaurant business, etc. The summer is the bulk of the annual business for many.

I believe the Gvt is doing the best it can. Rainbow flags and people banging pots on Thursday night for NHS workers is cool (it's what they do here) but there are other workers affected too, imo.

So, anyway ... I'm not qualified to comment beyond my own area. :)

China just shut down two cities with new outbreaks and 100 million people.
News to me! Wow!
 
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Aupmanyav

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But hell, thats just me, in the past few years I've gained more respect for the scientists than the politicians....
The police too are doing excellent work. Medical professionals and police have been regularly attacked by Muslim extremists in India.
 

Aupmanyav

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The world can't go on as it is, COVID-19 is just highlighting the real problem.
Yeah, the system can and should be improved. We should not have clandestine virus research. Not being an economist, can't place my finger on where exactly we could improve.
China just shut down two cities with new outbreaks and 100 million people.
I find difficult to believe in any Chinese report.
 
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RJM

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When global warming brings about the collapse of the travel industry ... what then?

I agree with your comments, but I do not agree that the old, sick, infirm, etc., become collateral damage in the perceived need to keep a failing economic model on its feet.

In short, 'the fifth largest economy in the world' (or thereabouts) should have the resources to weather a downturn. That we don't highlights the flaws in the system: Twenty six people own the equivalent of more than half of the world's total wealth. More than half the world's biggest economies are not countries, but corporates, and the wealthy and the corporates do not pay their taxes at anywhere near the rate they should. So we have billionaires bleating on TV that they need bale-outs to keep afloat. It never occurs to them to put back, in hard times, that which they took out in the good.

We have corporates who are drawing up treaties that allows them to sue nations if that nation's laws prevents them from making sufficient profit.

Please read this article on OpenDemocracy.

It's not alone in making the point. The world can't go on as it is, COVID-19 is just highlighting the real problem, it's not creating it.
Ok, I have read it. I do respect the sentiment, of the covid crisis encouraging a quieter, kinder and more equal new world. People do pull together in crisis.

Countries like the UK are far superior in their compassion for the less fortunate than many Global South nations. I do not believe the problems and inequality of the Global South can be blamed on the selfish capitalist abuse by the Global North. Most of their problems are caused by the corruption of their own leaders. Take Zimbabwe as an example.

While corona lockdown has caused people to hanker for a quieter and cleaner world, I personally believe the problems of climate change and pandemics are really the result of overpopulation.

Yes, people do pull together and are prepared to make personal sacrifices in time of crisis. That is the essence of Orwell's 1984: a constant state of crisis is projected upon the masses, to enable the leaders to manipulate them.

So, yes: we would all like to see a better, kinder world -- especially people living in the Congo, etc. But I wonder if corona is going to be the vehicle?

To me, human nature will never change. There will always be kind, decent individuals and societies, but there will always be greedy violent raider tribes.

That is the world, imo. We have an unsustainable global population. Nature has to take a hand to bring us back to sustainable levels -- by war, disease, climate change etc -- not all at once, but by a steady winnowing down and degredation of general living conditions.

I believe we are in this world to understand that there is nothing for us here. Of course that does not mean we should not try to make it a better world where we can.

Corona may encourage people to pull together in time of crisis, but I don't really think corona is going to do much to change human nature as a whole.

So ... there is my response, tapped out on my phone, without planning; just the immediate thoughts created by reading the article.
 
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Thomas

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I find difficult to believe in any Chinese report.
I find the same regarding my own country.

I've all but given up on UK media. I have one journalist and one independent political commentator I listen to, and that's it. For news I look elsewhere.
 

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... I know the NHS will be at least far better prepared by the end of June.
Better informed, but less resilient as it has had no time to recover its losses or for its staff to get some R&R.

... 500,000 retired NHS workers volunteered to return to work in April.
Don't you mean 50,000? I'd say less than that. And it's not simple, as they are all older, so more liable to illness, exhaustion, etc., and they have to be retrained.

... New temporary facilities have been built and funds made available, etc.
The Nightingale hospitals are empty, it transpires, not because of a shortage of patients, but because of a shortage of equipment – respirators and dialysis machines, etc. Also, a shortage of trained personnel.

The idea was hospitals would pass the worse cases to the Nightingales, but in reality those patients need treatment here and now, and hospitals are loathe to surrender their equipment when they're undersupplied, under-equipped and underfunded in the first place.

ITS ALL PR:
In the dark days of WWII, there was the big drive to make Spitfires, so the RAF could win the battle of Britain. The news was our plucky boys needed planes to take the fight to the enemy. There was the famous 'garden fence' campaign when people were asked to give up iron and steel fencing, pots and pans, old bedsteads, any metal at all that could be repurposed for the desperately-hungry factories making planes and tanks and ships, etc.

It was all a nonsense. At the end of the war, piles of collected scrap that had been sitting in dumps for 5 years were left to rot. There was no real system for processing scrap.

Nor was there a shortage of Spitfires. The shortage was pilots. They were ill-trained and inexperienced and getting knocked down almost as soon as they went up against the enemy.

So utterly desperate was it that the British were obliged, nay, indeed forced against all the best advice of the Air Ministry, to make squadrons of — Good God — (gulp) — foreign pilots operational. It goes against the grain, really, but there you go, 'needs must when the devil drives'.

And the Polish pilots, let loose on the enemy, bagged more enemy aircraft per nationality than any other during the Battle of Britain.

The point is, we're living in a media circus of jingoism. The Nightingale Hospitals are a distraction – another example of a knee-jerk, ill-conceived, destined-to-fail propaganda exercise, which is why the media has been so quiet about them.

I know thousands of people with families are going to be jobless if the lockdown goes on beyond that -- especially in the aviation and tourist and restaurant business, etc. The summer is the bulk of the annual business for many.
all of whom the govt could support, if it chose to.

I believe the Gvt is doing the best it can.
Well the govt is investing millions in unregulated data firms to create a digital NHS

Rainbow flags and people banging pots on Thursday night for NHS workers is cool (it's what they do here) but there are other workers affected too, imo.
They're not dying, to keep you alive tho, are they. Balance, mate ...

The sad fact is, we've had it good, and now we're entering the lean years ... progress is not a never-ending exponential upward curve it needs to be to sustain all these industries. We had our monies, from the North Sea Oil boom on, and we've pissed it up the wall. Thatcher sold the silver, our housing stock, our utilities, and successive govts have been selling off the rest ever since.

Now it's the NHS, being discreetly sold behind closed doors.

+++ NOTE TO MODS +++

I find myself becoming more and more politically involved. Maybe I should withdraw. If these posts are becoming too ranty, or too political, let me know.
 

RJM

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Don't you mean 50,000? I'd say less than that. And it's not simple, as they are all older, so more liable to illness, exhaustion, etc., and they have to be
Wrong there. Typo fixed. My bad
 
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I find myself becoming more and more politically involved. Maybe I should withdraw. If these posts are becoming too ranty, or too political, let me know.

While I appreciate you saying this, THOMAS, I don’t think you should withdraw. As this thread started, I’ve kept a close eye. Obviously a divisive topic and yet I’m actually happy with how this has played out. There are a difference of opinions here, yes, but across multiple posters we’re seeing that disagreement focus on news stories, personal accounts, and individual experiences. There haven’t been flame wars and personal attacks that slam the door and try to end discussion.

There’s going to be disagreement in the world moving forward on this, whatever forward looks like. Let’s continue to keep it civil and respect each other and know that we’re all trying to do our best. That’s the common ground the world needs to remember.

Take care of yourselves.
 

wil

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If a global pandemic and economic collapse cannot cause a flame war on I/O are we really a forum?

What kind of posters are we don't resort to name calling and oersonal attacks.

I love the meme that says...we are NOT all in the same boat! We are in the same storm, not the same boat. Many don't even have floaties or the ability to swim... others upset they are out of caviar and Amazon's same day shipping isn't working.

The kids, I worry for the kids, the young parents what will the future bring. While I know a lot more of us are gonna die...and across the board it is mostly thinning the old and weak if the herd. Us with more complications or age, the majority of which was destined to go in the next 2 decades are likely to go in the next 2 years. Freeing up food supplies, medical beds and drug supplies, opening up housing, bolstering retirement and social programs by taking people off thee dole.

We will survive, we will adapt and change.

I have faith in humanity...I've just never trusted my faith, lol.
 

RJM

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The kids, I worry for the kids, the young parents what will the future bring. While I know a lot more of us are gonna die...and across the board it is mostly thinning the old and weak if the herd. Us with more complications or age, the majority of which was destined to go in the next 2 decades are likely to go in the next 2 years. Freeing up food supplies, medical beds and drug supplies, opening up housing, bolstering retirement and social programs by taking people off thee dole.
That is straight honesty, typical from you, wil. Yes there are just too many of us oldies. We are living longer and using more state support. Ageing populations are the big problem for most first world (global north) nations. The young are starting to resent us, secure in our pensions and free travel passes etc, while they seem to have to work harder for smaller returns, year by year.
 

Aupmanyav

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I find the same regarding my own country.
Reports here are generally correct. We see only the private news channels (scores of them). We know some are pro-government and some are anti-government. We make adjustment for that. We never see the government channel (Door Darshan - Far-seeing), it is absolutely boring (but it reaches the most people in villages, government mandate, is the first to be included in the bouquet and is free). Among the foreign channels, Al-Jazeera gives best balanced news, CNN and BBC work through their associates and are not bad, but never BBC, London.

Lastly, the Indian Health Minister, Dr. Harsha Vardhan will be the chairman of the Executive Board at WHO from May 22.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-who-executive-board/articleshow/75843069.cms
 
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