Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by davidsheep88, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. davidsheep88

    davidsheep88 Member

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    We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
    20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

    Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

    There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

    Romans 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

    Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

    Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



    From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

    Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don't talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d's plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.

    People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

    James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

    2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


    And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

    Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


    There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

    Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
    God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

    Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

    Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."
     
  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Bingo, imo
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Staff Member

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    I'm not free to will my breath to stop indefinitely. Sooner or later some reflex will override my will.

    I'm not free to will myself to fly. If I jump out of the window, I'll fall, no matter what is my will.

    ...

    So, there are physical and physiological constraints to my will.

    Which one of your terms do these examples describe? Determinism or indeterminism?
     
  4. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Free will becomes our judgement day.

    Without free will, there can be no judgement.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. davidsheep88

    davidsheep88 Member

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    Determinism they are controlled by God general sovereignity.
     
  6. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    I see God gifted choice, there is much written on this now, this is one thought.

    "... Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.... " Abdul'baha

    Regards Tony
     
  7. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Staff Member

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    In a general sense I agree. Let's look at some more specific aspects:

    I base my ethical sense of right and wrong on what I learn about society and myself. At one point in my life, I felt it was right for me to eat the meat of some kinds of animals. Now, I think it is wrong for me to do so. So my will is not entirely free but highly susceptible to my life experience, the company I keep, the news I watch and so on.
     
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  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Doesn't that simply mean that as you grow and learn, you have the free will to decide what side of the street you walk on? You can cross the street as many times as you wish to? You are not forced to act upon your thoughts? Of course the human experience is limited to the human dimension of nature, and of course free will is contained within that limit.
     
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