Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

Because one you have since Adam " Choice " he can choose and not like the devil you can change your tinking that everything is decide you have to think outside the box ! People here the conlflict so many people is your freewill because everything is predestined you think you never had any choice God gave you A choice ! You were sent here by God A long time ago for God said he met you and knew you before you were concieved in your mother's womb. You ahve planned God sent you, you don't know it ! Yet. Were all part of God's divine plan and when he sent you here before you came to this world he gave A mission ! What is your mission or purpose ?

You can decide to use God's will, holy spirit , God's plan (it's all separeted but works for his plan at the end!) and love in his mission your purpose or don't know and live in ignorance an sin ! He give you choice and does not force yourself to do his bidding if so you would not have fredom to choose also from JEsus salvation which he agve freely from love !
 
Instinct is part of freewill but also consciousness you feel there for you exist you talk therefore you exist.

God said that man has eaten of the fruti of good and evil and said Genesis 3:22

22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

Be like god and the angels who knew good and evil !

Man is not God but it's show we can interact in good and evil but still it is that we can do why people ? Understand the freewill is biblical and is before our creation and it existed in one individual I do not like talking about but in " Lucifer ". He had freewill and unlike it was impossible for angels by many theologist for angels to concieve freedom and think for themselves proves the same questions exist before us with angels and they had choice and could escape their destiny and Lucifer chosed wrong. Lesson that our minds do come in question whether your free or you prisioner of yourself to be free is A mentality and put in God's way in his hands gives you freedom !
 
davidsheep88 said:
We start from the beginning when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.

The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of t........not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."
Click to expand...

The soul is given full freedom in choosing the right path or the wrong path (Svabhāvastu pravartate—Gita). God does not force souls to leave the wrong path and turn to the right path. Using logic, God fully explains to souls about both paths and the results of following each of them. It is the souls who must feel attracted towards the right path preached by God and follow it, using their own free will. Krishna only preached to Arjuna what the right direction in his situation was. After presenting the complete logic before Arjuna, Krishna finally told Arjuna to analyze whatever He had said thoroughly and make his own decision, using his own free will (Yathecchasi tathā kuru).

Krishna could have just forced Arjuna to fight the war, even without preaching the Gita. His mere will was sufficient to change the mind of Arjuna, in a fraction of a second. Then there would have been no need to preach all the eighteen chapters of the Gita! But God honors the free will that He Himself has granted to the soul. The change in the soul should not come through divine force. Instead, it should come through divine knowledge. It is for this reason that the soul must correctly grasp the concepts preached by God and assimilate them, in order to bring them into practice.

If the soul had no freedom and acted only as per the direction of God, the question posed by you would not even arise. The divine father, being greatly interested in the welfare of all the souls created by Him, would only direct them on the path of justice and they would all follow justice. Thus, there would only be peace and harmony in the world. In fact, such a situation actually existed for a very long time in the period called the Kṛta Yuga. But after that long time, souls got bored of always strictly following the directions given by God, without any freedom to choose what they wanted. So, they desired a free-will. The divine father always aims at the pleasure of His children and hence, He granted them a free-will, using which they had full freedom to choose what they wanted. But God expected souls to use their free-will in a responsible manner, using the powerful intelligence given to them to discriminate between the right and wrong paths. He clearly explained to them about the right and wrong paths through the scriptures. Knowing that souls are likely to misunderstand or deliberately misinterpret His preaching, He has repeatedly incarnated in human form, to eliminate the doubts and misinterpretations and preach true spiritual knowledge to every generation. In His preaching, He stresses on souls following the right path, again and again.

God is the divine Father of all souls, whereas, you are only a brother or sister to other souls. You should realize that He is far more concerned about their welfare than you are and He wants all souls to return to the right path. But God will never violate the free-will that He Himself has granted to souls. Under these circumstances, there is no other way than to repeatedly preach to souls about following the correct path while, at the same time, giving them full freedom to choose what they want. The souls who follow His preaching progress spiritually, while those who reject His preaching do not. Souls who wish to change must choose to follow His guidance, using their own free will. There is no other alternative, under the circumstances.
 
Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eaten and later remove by God ?
 
But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us.

The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?

Going to pst what dave said one time please follow thru !
 
A friend posted this !

1689dave said :

Originally Posted by Brightfame52
Since God controls our choices, mans will isnt free from Gods control, His Purpose, is that right ?
God controls every choice every person freely makes causing them to align with His unchangeable eternal plan. He controls us through the reasons He sends for us to base our choices on. Yet we choose what we want most based on these reasons so we incur the guilt or blessing that comes from the choice.
 
Brightframe:
Not only is mans will not free from the Sovereign control of Gods will and purpose, neither is mans free from his wicked sinful nature, for by nature we are all slaves to our sin nature which is controled by the devil. Eph 2:1-3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
By nature, while spiritually dead, we walk according to the prince of the power of the air, a spirit that remains at work in the unbelievers, constituting them disobedient, and unfortunaetly there is no way to freewill ourselves out from under this control, and our wills are under this mighty control.
Jesus calls it being a servant or slave to sin Jn 8:34
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Folks this describes all of us by nature, until, if Jesus is so pleased, to quicken us from this spiritual death and slavery.
 
Dave:

Free will turns God into a bully who makes people "say uncle" or do whatever their brand of religion tells them to do to save themselves. I.e., make decisions, use sacraments, etc., or He will torture them forever. This is a very nasty bully god.

It also makes God out to be a character who bribes people with rewards if they sell their souls to him after "saying uncle". This is salvation by works and has nothing to with God and salvation by grace. Grace instead saves a person when their will can only choose sin. and the Holy Spirit then bears witness in their hearts causing them to believe in and love Christ.
 
Then another friend named Jesustruth said :

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?
We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him. and dave replied.


Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?

We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.
Where do you get that Idea? We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
 
Brightframe replied them !

Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?

We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.
Those God Loves shall love Him, 1 Jn 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

God first Loved His People He chose in Christ Jesus, and sooner or later, He gives them new spiritual life with a new heart to love Him Deut 30:6
And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
 
You cannot be saved on your own efforts only in G-d's effort and how do you obtian them ?

Just like Jesus did. The bible says God came as the son and came without power and did so for A reason. And he came without power. Why did God came as Jesus with no power but one to pray to God. God came as man naked and could die like any other man ! He did not bring A host of angels with him. He show the whole world how he wanted man before the fall of man, praying. Jesus prayed and prayed he prayed in the morning , in the evning, and in the night.

And what he said is

Matthew 6:10
10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Jesus is the second Adam he is what Adam was suppsoed to be and Jesus was not giant like adam, he had no superpowers like Superman or Samson, he had no army to prove what God wanted from man to talk to him and pray and do the 2 commands " Love thy father and they neighbor " That si all to be like Jesus simple.

Do that ! He didn't came with A huge host of angels and ended the world he let them repent and have A choice to love him and be saved by him. You put things in God's hands and when A storm comes you don't let go of his hands and show you were faithful to him.
 
Dave said this.

Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point.
Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:
If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?
Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.
 
Jesustruth


Originally Posted by 1689dave

Where do you get that Idea?
God wants us to choose to love Him.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Isaiah 65:11-12 "But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live


We have a choice.
 
Jesustruth:


Originally Posted by 1689dave

We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
God circumcises our heart by our obeying His words and His words are that we repent of our sins.
Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
Not all only hate God and love sin.
We are flesh and spirit.
Some people want more out of this life than pleasing their flesh with sin.
 
Jesustruth
Originally Posted by Brightfame52

Those God Loves shall love Him, 1 Jn 4:18-19
God loves those who love Him.


John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."
 
Jesustruth:

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me,
1 Samuel 2:30 "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.'But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained.
Psalm 91:14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Psalm 145:20 The LORD watches over all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.
James 1:12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
 
Jesustruth said:

Originally Posted by 1689dave

Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point.

Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:

If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?



Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.
When Paul taught about those who can't obey, he was speaking about someone under the law without faith, and he was talking about the person of the flesh who only wants to please the flesh with sin.

Not everyone only wants to do that.
 
Brightframe replied :

Originally Posted by 1689dave

Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point.

Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:

If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?



Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.
Yeah I agree with Luther. I read his book bondage of the will many years ago.

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Hannibal Flavius:

I dont think I believe in free will because there is no time as Einstein said, time is an illusion.
The past, present and future have already been, if you were on a planet 65 million light years from Earth, you could literally watch the asteroid hit earth, and you would see living dinosaurs before they died.
What will be exists already, besides that, everyone in the bible had to do and say exactly what they said and did BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN, THE FUTURE KNOWN BECAUSE IT EXISTS AND WAS WRITTEN TO HAPPEN AND NO EVENT COULD HAVE FAILED
 
Jesustruth:

God made us with free will to do good or evil. When Adam sinned sin entered the world, and we became like God knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
God wants us to choose to love Him; He wants us to choose to do right.
There is eternal life with God one day without sin and sickness and death.
We have to choose what we want for ourselves now so that we can have that life with God through Jesus Christ.
 
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