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juantoo3

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I see. OK then. Let me change tack from my usual discussions on early Christianity..


Germany officially recognises colonial-era Namibia genocide

Fair enough.

Are you also willing to discuss?:

The Arab slave trade was most active in West Asia, North Africa, and Southeast Africa. The Ottoman slave trade exploited the human resources of eastern and central Europe and the Caucasus; the Barbary Coast slave traders raided the Mediterranean coasts of Europe and as far afield as the British Isles and Iceland. In the early 20th century (post-World War I), authorities gradually outlawed and suppressed slavery in Muslim lands, largely due to pressure exerted by Western nations such as Britain and France.[17]Slavery in the Ottoman Empire was abolished in 1924 when the new Turkish Constitution disbanded the Imperial Harem and made the last concubines and eunuchs free citizens of the newly proclaimed republic.[18]Slavery in Iran was abolished in 1929. Mauritania became the last state to abolish slavery - in 1905, 1981, and again in August 2007. Oman abolished slavery in 1970, and Saudi Arabia and Yemen abolished slavery in 1962 under pressure from Britain.[19] However, slavery claiming the sanction of Islam is documented at present in the predominantly Islamic countries of the Sahel,[20][21] and is also practiced in territories controlled by Islamist rebel groups. It is also practiced in countries like Libya and Mauritania - despite being outlawed. (emphasis mine, -jt3)

ref: History of slavery in the Muslim world - Wikipedia

Seems to me Islamic states were and are the last to give up slavery. Slavery....still going on....in Africa!...with the blessing of Islam.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do make a right.
 
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muhammad_isa

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Are you also willing to discuss?:

ref: History of slavery in the Muslim world - Wikipedia

Seems to me Islamic states were and are the last to give up slavery. Slavery....still going on....in Africa!...with the blessing of Islam.

I don't know that much about it.
I DO know that the Qur'an encourages people to set slaves free.
I DO know that zakat is compulsory, and can be used to set slaves free.

Do I think that Muslims are somehow incapable of wronging other people? No, I don't.
I DO know that Islam is a great blessing and can enable the poor to be lifted out of a spiral of despair.

Can Christianity do that? Not in the same way, I don't think. Islam is strict. It is about self-discipline.
Harsh environments and circumstances are not easy to overcome.
 

muhammad_isa

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Long term unemployment has become endemic in many societies throughout the world.
It can completely destroy lives. We know that. US suffers from similar problems, which exacerbates the relationship
between black and white people, for example.
In reality, it is not about color of skin and historical slavery. It is about a financial system that continually divides us.

I dread to think what would have happened to me if Almighty God had not lifted me up and enlightened me.

Has it been an easy path to tread? Absolutely not. Anything worth having is not easy.
 

juantoo3

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I don't know that much about it.
I DO know that the Qur'an encourages people to set slaves free.
I DO know that zakat is compulsory, and can be used to set slaves free.

Human trafficking is the dirty little secret, and enslavement of white skinned folks continues...quietly, very quietly.

The irony to me is black skinned folks enslaving black skinned folks in Africa with the blessing of Islam. And Muslims elsewhere do not speak out against it. First world countries are no better, we turn a blind eye, there's nothing of value in it for us, which is equally shameful in my opinion.

Do I think that Muslims are somehow incapable of wronging other people? No, I don't.
I DO know that Islam is a great blessing and can enable the poor to be lifted out of a spiral of despair.

Can Christianity do that? Not in the same way, I don't think. Islam is strict. It is about self-discipline.
Harsh environments and circumstances are not easy to overcome.
I hear you on the self-discipline, and I do believe through a lot of study and soul-searching, that some common teachings in modern Christianity (All you've got to do is BELIEVE!) are not founded in scripture. Some I can guess the source, others are a bit more vague, but such misinformation falls on the heads of the teachers / leaders / pastors / priests. Those that teach error and lead folks to hell have a severe price to pay in the afterlife. "For many will call out, Lord! Lord!, have we not worked miracles in your name? And (I) will say to them, get thee hence, (I) never knew ye." And that is why I trust my soul to no Earthly person, I pursue my studies solo. I lead myself, and right or wrong I will answer for myself.
 
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juantoo3

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Long term unemployment has become endemic in many societies throughout the world.
It can completely destroy lives. We know that. US suffers from similar problems, which exacerbates the relationship
between black and white people, for example.
In reality, it is not about color of skin and historical slavery. It is about a financial system that continually divides us.
During the pandemic our gummint thought it would be a good idea to give unemployed folks "a little extra," which ended up making their unemployment benefits greater than my paycheck, that I have to show up for. What inducement was there to return to work when companies began opening back up? None, so they sit on the couch, smoke pot and drink beer all day and get paid for it. Now the inducement is being eliminated (in some states like mine) and the mandatory work seeking requirements are being reinstated - and companies all around are BEGGING for help - and so grudgingly these folks are filtering back into the workforce. The unemployment situation was artificially induced BY OUR GUMMINT!

Prior to the pandemic, with the economy humming under Trump (like him or not, the fact is he built up the economy) unemployment for ALL sectors was at all time lows since records started being kept: women, minorities, youth, minority women, minority youth...all at record lows. You never hear about that. That tells me some in gummint are complicit with fomenting raw livic.

I dread to think what would have happened to me if Almighty God had not lifted me up and enlightened me.

Has it been an easy path to tread? Absolutely not. Anything worth having is not easy.
And that is awesome! I agree, anything worth having is not easy, and that includes thoughtful discussion. In some ways perhaps Christianity is for the lazy, the uneducated, those who just want to show up and socialize, but there are many, many Christians that find great value in the faith, and Christianity does have its deep thinkers that are fully capable of mining gems of great price from its tenets. It does take effort though, and not all Christians are up to the task.
 
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muhammad_isa

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During the pandemic our gummint thought it would be a good idea to give unemployed folks "a little extra," which ended up making their unemployment benefits greater than my paycheck, that I have to show up for. What inducement was there to return to work when companies began opening back up? None, so they sit on the coach, smoke pot and drink beer all day and get paid for it..

Well, this is just rivalry about who gets what, imo. It does not address the serious issues of inequality in the financial system.
..within a nation .. and globally.
You and I both have to suffer from the huge pressure that bears down through immigration. I would imagine that most
people would rather stay in their own countries .. if they could.

Prior to the pandemic, with the economy humming under Trump (like him or not, the fact is he built up the economy) unemployment for ALL sectors was at all time lows since records started being kept..

It is not about Republican or Democrat .. Labour or Conservative. It is much more fundamental than that.
The problem is that both governments seek to reward "their people" rather than address the root cause. i.e. usury

What is Capitalism? Is it a "dirty word" for Democrats?
Not for me it isn't. People should get rewarded according to the effort that they put in..
..and not the MONEY that they put in. Those people don't just laze around smoking pot, but spend millions of dollars on
a luxurious lifestyle. It's fraudulent. It is hypocritical.

..there are many, many Christians that find great value in the faith, and Christianity does have its deep thinkers that are fully capable of mining gems of great price from its tenets..

Absolutely .. I've got "2 hats", as you know :)
 

juantoo3

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address the root cause. i.e. usury

You mean like the Rockefellers, the Bilderbergs, the International Monetary Fund, George Soros, et al?

Absolutely. Who do you think is fomenting raw livic? They look to mop up in the aftermath and subjugate everyone under their control. We're basically already there, it is just the formality...
 

muhammad_isa

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You mean like the Rockefellers, the Bilderbergs, the International Monetary Fund, George Soros, et al?

Absolutely. Who do you think is fomenting raw livic? They look to mop up in the aftermath and subjugate everyone under their control. We're basically already there, it is just the formality...

Yes .. divide and rule.

As I see it, it more or less started with the goldsmiths in London.
They got a good reputation for looking after people's gold / silver, and they would give them a receipt.

"I promise to pay the bearer on demand" .. it still appears on sterling bank-notes today.
Before that, money [ coinage ] was made of silver / gold.

Initially, the goldsmiths would only pay the person named on the receipt, but then they realised that it was in their
interest if they paid the person who held it. They could then issue "receipts" to people as a loan,
This is how fractional-reserve banking started.

Eventually, governments around the world, decided that they would only allow "a central bank" to engage in
this questionable activity .. often backed by gold.

These days, it is pure manipulation by those globally in control. Oh dear! What a web we weave :(
 

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a figment of your imagination
subjugate everyone under their control. We're basically already there, it is just the formality...
These days, it is pure manipulation by those globally in control. Oh dear! What a web we weave

Get your rose colored glassed.here! Quit self flagellating as you woe.is me that's not.music.kids these.days and GET OFF.MY LAWN!

We are talking on an interfaith chat with folks from a variety of walks of life.and economics and.religions from around the world on a device that basically has access to all knowledge in the known world.

We can post pictures of our dinners, post jokes about our political leaders, rant.across.the oceans about movie selections and stop a pandemic thru a.modecum of cooperation and ton of 21st century know it all....

And of course for all these blessings and more we.should give thanks to the Rockefellers, the Bilderbergs, the International Monetary Fund, George Soros, and the London locksmiths.

Please to respond with the time in the past 5000 years you would have preferred to have been born.....be sure.to remember to horde some toilet paper before you go. (And recall the likelihood of being born to the elite.of that society.and having access to food and clothing.amd.shelter.of.any.kind is unlikely.
 

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The English have always been very kind and helpful towards me, at every turn. Unless I acted entitled. They have zero sympathy for that. I only ever asked the world the right to earn my own living.

I believe it is one of the fairest and most compassionate states on the planet, as a short while living in Africa or Pakistan or ... you name it ... will rapidly make clear. Why does everybody want to come here? It's not the weather, we know that, lol

Imo. Just me ...
 
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muhammad_isa

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We can post pictures of our dinners, post jokes about our political leaders, rant.across.the oceans about movie selections and stop a pandemic thru a.modecum of cooperation and ton of 21st century know it all....

And of course for all these blessings and more we.should give thanks to the Rockefellers, the Bilderbergs, the International Monetary Fund, George Soros, and the London locksmiths..

No .. we are all entitled to our opinions, but I don't agree.
Evil is evil. One cannot get blessings from evil. Usury is evil.
Just like adultery, it causes enmity and hatred. Remember, a woman who is taken advantage of, is somebody's daughter.

If we wish to ignore the root cause of hatred in the world, and blame each others religions, we will get nowhere, IMO.
 

muhammad_isa

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The English have always been very kind and helpful towards me, at every turn. Unless I acted entitled. They have zero sympathy for that. I only ever asked the world the right to earn my own living.

England is not just comprised of the southern counties, you know.
Some people can't earn their living .. just as in the US.

If we did all have jobs, some politician would come along and make sure that we didn't.
The system depends on unemployment to keep inflation in check.
We all perceive what we perceive, depending on our experiences and environment.
 

RJM

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The system depends on unemployment to keep inflation in check.
Would you like to explain how the system prefers to support citizens on social security than to have a working population generating GDP for the state as a whole? Inflation results from printing money against inadequate reserves -- such as for covid contingency, perhaps. The stronger the GDP the less the need to inflate currency.

Inflation/employment in England Vs in Zimbabwe? Truth is, it's just harder for politicians to cheat and get away with it in 'civilized western' states, imo
 
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muhammad_isa

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The fact.that she is someone daughter sister or mom should have zero to do with how you treat a fellow human!

Sorry .. I don't understand your point.
Would you like your daughter to become a single parent on benefits [ or forced to work for a pittance ] ?
..because I wouldn't !
 

muhammad_isa

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Would you like to explain how the system prefers to support citizens on social security than to have a working population generating GDP for the state as a whole? Inflation results from printing money against inadequate reserves -- such as for vivid contingency, perhaps. Inflation/employment in England Vs in Zimbabwe? Truth is, it's just harder for politicians to cheat and get away with it in 'civilized western' states, imo

You're very naive..
Prime Minister Mrs. Thatcher famously said: "Unemployment is a price worth paying" in the 80's.
..and of course, when it suits people, they then turn around and blame the unemployed,
suggesting that they should "get on their bikes".

What? Are we all supposed to move to London and sleep on our bikes as well? o_O
 
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