COVID Vax thoughts

The third wave of Covid-19 receding fast in India. 254,000 active cases, 38,000 less than yesterday (NDTV).
 
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Thomas said:
But at the same time, 12,000 lives are not nothing – certainly no reason to dismiss fears over/ignore completely vaccine-related deaths
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And reasonable to assume that for every death, there will be many more health effects short of death, and more as facts accumulate?

Point being: is it reasonable to pressure or mandate young people to take the vaccine, who are themselves extremely unlikely to suffer serious effects from covid?
 
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RJM said:
And reasonable to assume that for every death, there will be many more health effects short of death, and more as facts accumulate?
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Yep.

RJM said:
is it reasonable to pressure or mandate young people to take the vaccine, who are themselves extremely unlikely to suffer serious effects from covid?
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No ... but you should offer ... and there's young around who wish they had.
 
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Unveiled artist said:
I understand it's a small risk but that hasn't stopped scientists throughout the years to study these things. Maybe we would more when the pandemic subsides and there's no need to push vaccination.

Since there are breakthroughs wouldn't it make sense for the general public to think why?

If it's that minimal then why would they pause J&J and instead say *oh, this science based article says it's minimal let's ignore it.*

(I just woke up practically. I'll have to read the article later)... But I understand it's minimal but that doesn't mean there aren't still breakthroughs to look into (if one is interested and find science on it without downplay)

.gov sites are good sources. I usually go to those and academic sites. I would like to find opinionated sites to for interest. They are censored. I think it's the way authors phrase their content and sources they may use. I think if they're antivax (let's say) or just writing their opinions they would use scientific sources. It's possible though I was told they are most likely fudging the information.
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wil said:
People are dying to take advice from devils advocates.

It is a shame. I have come to the conclusion that everyone has differing levels of concern regarding safety for themselves and others. I hate to say it ...but I have given up on them. I wont waste my breath on them any more. It is time for covid only hospitals...
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People have always had different levels of safety for self and others. A person in China wouldn't vax for someone in the US because the possibility of transmission is so small it would be odd to consider it.

Then you'd have to have the illness to transmit it so it doesn't make sense to me personally to blame people for what I don't know (only what I am told about them; that's a recipe for fear).

But if I knew a person had COVID and they say went to a hospital or school unmasked I'd raise an eye.

The problem I see with "don't waste by breathe" as per my OP it causes problems and counterproductive. As a whole I'm not sure how these mentalities start but everyone's different.

I hear what you're saying though. What do you mean by taking advice from devils advocate?

(Assuming) Are you saying looking at facts on the opposite side will convince people to change positions?

In a religious comparison atheist scholars study scripture but historical facts won't change their view that God doesn't exist.
 
Aupmanyav said:
The third wave of Covid-19 receding fast in India. 254,000 active cases, 38,000 less than yesterday (NDTV).
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Has the omicron variant reached there?

It's in the states but they say it's not as serious so states are dropping mandates and lightening up on vax and mask requirements excluding schools (most comply),healthcare facilities, and federal government-I believe.
 
Thomas said:
I know. And anti-vaxxers hanging nooses from lamp-posts in Melbourne.

Fundies on both side should shut up, but the fact is that on this or any issue, fundies on both sides should not be allowed to set the tenor of the debate.

Distilled from The Guardian, published a couple of days ago:

Hospitalisation and death from Covid-19 in the US are now driven heavily (not exclusively) by the unvaccinated.

Yet vaccine hesitancy remains ... why?

Vaccines were portrayed as 90%+ effective against Covid. It turns out that even two doses declines in efficacy, to less than 50%.

Even the three-shot "boosted" experience 'breakthrough infection' (as per my household). In fact a daughter and her husband as well as my beloved have all been boosted and yet ... so, over time, the justification for getting vaccinated has shifted. Rather than preventing infection altogether, it's now argued as a socially responsible decision to to reduce hospitalisation and risk of death (the vaccines remain very effective at this).

In short, the main benefit of vaccination has been revised down dramatically – from preventing infection to reducing severity of infection.

Time between shots started at 12 weeks and was cut to 3 or 4. Evidence suggests 8 to 12 weeks between doses provides much better antibody response, reducing the prospect of breakthrough infections while simultaneously extending the window of high infection resistance.

That is, a less aggressive policy would have been wiser – but the policy shows no sign of changing.

Successive boosters generates billions for vaccine manufacturers. Big Pharma have an interest in multiple rounds being mandated/encouraged, in as many places as possible (at as high a price as possible).

They have a clear interest in funding and promoting research suggesting that more rounds of vaccination are needed – and they have been doing just that, while lobbying governments to adopt their vaccines over those of their competitors.

According to the VAERS (vaccine adverse event reporting system) database, nearly 12,000 Americans have died shortly after receiving Covid vaccines, possibly as a result of side-effects or allergic reactions from the vaccines. On the one hand, these casualties represent a minuscule share (0.0022%) of all doses given out, and are radically offset by the immense number of lives saved by vaccination.

But at the same time, 12,000 lives are not nothing – certainly no reason to dismiss fears over/ignore completely vaccine-related death.

In the US, pharma won exemptions from the govt shielding them from being sued should their vaccines produce adverse reactions.

Over the course of the pandemic, those in power, their friends and party donors have reaped significant financial windfalls from covid-related business deals. In the UK this was rampant.

The above can reasonably contribute to vaccine hesitancy.

Expert modelling and predictions seemed, in retrospect, to have exaggerated rates of infection, the numbers of deaths, etc, over a given period. There are good reasons for the models to be skewed in this direction. Nonetheless, policies have been costly for many – especially in education and the leisure industries. Plus the knock-on from financial losses, business collapses, social isolation, mental health strain etc. These costs have all been borne most heavily by those who were already relatively disadvantaged and vulnerable – populations already inclined to be skeptical of authorities.

For example, ethnic minorities living in poor housing, or multiple occupancy, or the tendency towards multi-generational occupancy, suffered heavily, as did those with non life-threatening conditions wheich were exacerbated by covid – eg. diabetes, asthma.

Nonetheless, those who express concern about the profound costs of Covid-19 mitigation policies are often derided as myopic and selfish.
With respect to questions of possible adverse side effects, the origins of the virus, pandemic modelling, vaccine efficacy, masking, lockdown, travel restrictions – both experts and policymakers have been relying on data that was extremely provisional, and the latter abandoning data when it suited. In the UK we hear 'follow the science' as if science was in universal agreement, which it ain't.

So we got a lot right, and we got a lot wrong. This is not unusual – it is how science works. The problem, however, is that spokespeople (and "Trust the Science" brigade) regularly concealed uncertainties, suppressed inconvenient information and squashed internal dissent in an ill-conceived effort to seem maximally authoritative.

At times there were blatant political double standards with respect to public health guidance.

Any of these factors could easily and quite reasonably generate skepticism about authorities and their advice, including as it relates to the Covid vaccine.
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I'm glad The Guardian published this 'dark side of the debate' article ...
 
Partied with a few thousand vaxxed folks...was wonderful to live for two weeks like the before times...no fear of infecting and sending to hospital somebody who is at risk due to not getting the poke...no masks, no distancing, lots of hugz and kisses for Valentine's.

Before I re entered the world of the unvaxxed...i tested negative...no need to quarantine... Back to masks and distancing.

If I could separate myself from the fear mongers I would in a heartbeat!
 
RJM said:
And reasonable to assume that for every death, there will be many more health effects short of death, and more as facts accumulate
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It's significant. Think of a bomb: deaths are less than injuries. So if there are 20 non-fatal vaxx injuries for every death, with 12 000 deaths there are perhaps 240 000 potential vaxx 'injuries' to young and working age people under 50 -- themselves at minimal risk from damaging covid effects, added to the damaging effect upon their lives and their childrens' education of two years covid restrictions -- in order to protect mostly those beyond life expectancy?
Thomas said:
No ... but you should offer ... and there's young around who wish they had.
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Why don't they trust the official narrative 'company line' that sidelines their concerns while putting the main weight upon them?
 
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Indians mostly are 'vaxxers'. The government has not allowed vaxing for children like my younger grandson (10+). The day they allow it, we will get him vaxxed. Perhaps school will open in Delhi by March 1.

"As more than 70% of Indians were infected with Delta during the second wave and India has vaccinated 95% of eligible population, at least with one dose, so close to three-fourths of India's population has hybrid immunity. This hybrid immunity wall is the reason India had a relatively minor third wave."
https://www.livemint.com/science/he...ons-finds-study-read-here-11644411033886.html
 
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Wife and I got our mark of the beast shots and booster last year. Can't say I'm for or against it really. Only got it because her job puts her in constant public contact and figured if one or both of us does get it, may lessen the chance of becoming a burden to others. It wasn't at the time, but it's now mandatory at her place of employ to show proof of vaccination or a valid medical exemption.
 
Dr Campbell's advice to aspirate is now implemented in Denmark and Germany -- also aspiration is practiced in Taiwan and China -- however the UK still regards him as a crank
19/02/2022
18 min


 
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India to go for booster does for people above 60 from Wednesday. No questions asked.
Also children above 12 years of age.
Situation very much under control at the moment.
New cases 2,500, Active 36,000 (down by 2,000), Deaths 27.
 
All-India active case count: 12,597 (down by 416), deaths: 13. Third wave practically over. Masks recommended. Waiting for the fourth.The younger one starts school tomorrow after 2 wasted years (Sixth standard).
 
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Covid just hit my niece and her hubby...and their 2 year old....they are home and fighting fairly mild but irritating symptoms.

I will be getting my booster boosted.

The army kids get to play antiwar songs from.my youth with old rockers.... https://fb.watch/caFvqGJe5L/
 
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