Reading with New Eyes, Hearing with New Ears

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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You know this, how? God spoke to Moses from a burning bush, and from a cloud to John at Jesus's baptism.

So, this is what seeing with new eyes and hearing with new ears is all about. If the person immediately defaults to past ideas, how is it possible to have new eyes and ears. We must be able to look at new concepts with and open mind and use our Gid given reason.

So, both the Bab and Baha'u'llah have offered it was them talking to Moses through the burning Bush. So this is a new concept to consider, how is that possible?

This allows us to consider that Jesus as "Christ is all the Names of God, which are one and all, pre-existant.

There is a Tablet of the Universe by Abdul'baha that explains the emanation/creation of the Holy Spirit from God and shows how all these Messengers are pre-existant and we're sent by God. They are like the suns of our material world that each light a solar system and are part of a Universe of Manifestations.

If you choose, read the first part of this provisional translation.

https://bahai-library.com/abdul-baha_lawh_aflakiyyih

Remember we are discussing the possibility of seeing with new eyes, and hearing with new ears.

Regards Tony
 

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For the next 1000 yrs Bahá’u’lláh will be venerated above all other ‘messengers’ and everyone will drop their old religions to say Baha’i prayers and attend Baha’i temples and observe Baha’i festivals, in a peaceful world governed by Baha’i principles ...
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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The Bahai interpretation of religious texts differs greatly in the eyes of many believers in the texts he interprets.

While of course in this manner many believers believe differing interpretations and have created many divisions, denominations and sects...the Bahai take it a step further to me.

I honor them for being in an interfaith place trying to find agreement...but indont see folks have achieving agreement....finding common ground seems much more feasible.

That is a good observation, but I would offer it does not need to cause division. Division is all about the self wanting control over other men.

No Message God has given should cause Division. Thus the Baha'i Faith is an example of unity in our Diverisity, as Baha'i are from all Faiths and do not reject the Faith they came form, they in fact embrace all the others from God they once rejected.

So this is what this OP is about, new eyes and new ears are needed. I personally see there is no other hope for the future but for humanity o embrace the oneness of humanity and the oneness of God in all the colours of the rainbow.

There are lots of studies on the Oneness concept and how it is a positive motivation.

Regards Tony
 

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So, this is what seeing with new eyes and hearing with new ears is all about. If the person immediately defaults to past ideas, how is it possible to have new eyes and ears. We must be able to look at new concepts with and open mind and use our Gid given reason.

So, both the Bab and Baha'u'llah have offered it was them talking to Moses through the burning Bush. So this is a new concept to consider, how is that possible?

This allows us to consider that Jesus as "Christ is all the Names of God, which are one and all, pre-existant.

There is a Tablet of the Universe by Abdul'baha that explains the emanation/creation of the Holy Spirit from God and shows how all these Messengers are pre-existant and we're sent by God. They are like the suns of our material world that each light a solar system and are part of a Universe of Manifestations.

If you choose, read the first part of this provisional translation.

https://bahai-library.com/abdul-baha_lawh_aflakiyyih

Remember we are discussing the possibility of seeing with new eyes, and hearing with new ears.

Regards Tony
This completely ignores the context of my reply to @Ahanu correcting his statement that the spirit has not ears to hear or tongue to speak. It was Bab and Bahá’u’lláh speaking to Moses from the burning bush? Really?As for reading long Baha’i tracts, you’ll have to count me out until they’re available in decent ordinary language— it’s not at all similar to King James English which is pithy and powerful. Inhale thee of the wafting fragrance of bowers of flowers etc, sorry it just doesn’t talk to me at all ...
 
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Tone Bristow-Stagg

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For the next 1000 yrs Bahá’u’lláh will be venerated above all other ‘messengers’ and everyone will drop their old religions to say Baha’i prayers and attend Baha’i temples and observe Baha’i festivals, in a peaceful world governed by Baha’i principles ...

I would offer that a Baha’i temple service contains prayers and reading from all the Major religions. Every faith is welcome, you do not need to be a Baha'i.

I see that it is up to humanity and their democratically elected representatives to set the principles we will live by as a united humanity. The Baha'i Faith has its set laws, ro which we will abide by. Any form of Dictatorship in the rule of mankind will vanish.

Big topic, regards Tony
 

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This completely ignores the context of my reply to @Ahanu correcting his statement that the spirit has not ears to hear or tongue to speak. It was Bab and Bahá’u’lláh speaking to Moses from the burning bush? As for reading long Baha’i tracts, you’ll have to count me out until they’re available indecent ordinary language— it’s not at all similar to King James English which is pithy and powerful. The fragrance of bowers of flowers etc, sorry it just doesn’t talk to me at all ...

OK we can do that.

We could have explored how the Spirit speaks without a tongue and hears without ears.

Have you ever had a dream? How were you talking, seeing, running and even flying while asleep upon one's couch?

Regards Tony
 

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OK we can do that.

We could have explored how the Spirit speaks without a tongue and hears without ears.

Have you ever had a dream? How were you talking, seeing, running and even flying while asleep upon one's couch?

Regards Tony
I know.
Explain it to @Ahanu
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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I know.
Explain it to @Ahanu

OK there must be a mix up here. I should not have jumped in without going back and understanding what was said.

In the material world eyes are needed to see and a mouth is needed for conversation.

Ahanu would be explaining how God speaks to humanity, we are not Messengers, and God does not speak directly to humanity, only through the Messengers.

Regards Tony
 

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we are not Messengers, and God does not speak directly to humanity, only through the Messengers.
You say.

But I know God speaks directly and personally to every sincere human heart and soul -- regardless of time, place or religion (or no religion)
 
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That is a good observation, but I would offer it does not need to cause division. Division is all about the self wanting control over other men.

No Message God has given should cause Division
Those with eyes may read aloud what their fingers are writing and verily what their mouths have spoketh may their ears hear.
 
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Removed. Adds nothing to the discussion. Sorry
 
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@Tone Bristow-Stagg
Sorry. I'm genuinely not trying to be obstructive. I know you are sincere people. I respect your views and am not in this to create confrontation or bad feeling. Sorry if it comes across that way
 
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Okay. But . . .
The following words indicate a human form: "He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come" (John 16.13). Disembodied spirits do not have ears to hear or mouths to speak.
This is really a very weak argument and @RJM has dealt with it.

I would only add that when speaking of the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost hagios pneuma, a close reading of the text is required to discern whether it speaks of the Giver – the Holy Spirit as the acting agency – or the gift.

Also, these words are reminiscent of what Christ says throughout the gospels ...
Precisely the point! Christ speaks about Himself being sent by the Father, and of the Holy Spirit being sent. Not a prophet, but the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit was already with Christ ...
Yes, but not with the Disciples, that's the point.

The Three Persons of the Trinity are never separate, although can been seen to act independently. The Second Person was never absent from heaven while Jesus walked the earth, for example, and the Holy Spirit was there with Father and Son before the world was made.

... so there's no point in saying "the Paraclete will not come to you" if he doesn't depart (16.7) unless he also had in mind another prophet.
No, that doesn't necessarily, or logically, follow. The other Paraclete, whom Jesus will send, is the Holy Spirit, not a person, therefore not a prophet.
 

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Ahanu would be explaining how God speaks to humanity, we are not Messengers, and God does not speak directly to humanity, only through the Messengers.
I would dispute that ... or at least, in my Tradition, God has done just that.
 

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You know we are all saying the dame thing if you will only stop this saviour crap and you guys give up on reincarnation we all know the world is not suffering and he isn't really the last prophet (pbuh)....

As I said before there is a lot of the Bahai concept I like...and a lot of what the bab said...but this thread is as much like proselytizing as 2 kids in white shirts riding bicycles to knock on doors.
 

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but this thread is as much like proselytizing as 2 kids in white shirts riding bicycles to knock on doors.
I'm not getting that ... am enjoying this theead
 
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In the end, I think the Baha'i movement just want people to read their stuff. But my problem is that it's impenetrable:
... There is a Tablet of the Universe by Abdul'baha that explains the emanation/creation of the Holy Spirit from God and shows how all these Messengers are pre-existant and we're sent by God. They are like the suns of our material world that each light a solar system and are part of a Universe of Manifestations.

If you choose, read the first part of this provisional translation.

https://bahai-library.com/abdul-baha_lawh_aflakiyyih

Remember we are discussing the possibility of seeing with new eyes, and hearing with new ears.

Regards Tony

https://bahai-library.com/abdul-baha_lawh_aflakiyyih

"Consider this marvelous cycle, this great matchless dispensation and say: Glorified be God, Lord of the Exalted Throne, for He hath manifested the Sun of Oneness and the Eternal Reality from this lofty and majestic, this mighty and ancient Horizon in such wise that when its ardent penetrating rays shone upon the empty worlds and desolate realms the realities of all things and the universal meanings sprang forth and were renewed through its regenerative power the hidden mysteries of the sciences, which discover the divine realities, were made known, and the guarded, preserved Secret and the Hidden Sign became manifest. For this sublime cycle, this most great Dawntide is the dispensation of truths and mysteries, of the gathering-up of the affairs of the Merciful in the centre of lights, and of the appearance of the hidden treasures in the midmost heart of the worlds of Thy Lord, the Almighty, the Unconstrained. In the reality of drops seas of divine verses surge and in the essence of atoms suns of names and attributes are manifest. In our times scientists are discovering in the strata of rocks secrets that their predecessors could not discover in perspicuous tablets of light. That is because in this most great manifestation, without investigation or deduction the gates of revelation and discovery have been thrown wide open ..."

It deeply needs fixing, imo
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

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I would dispute that ... or at least, in my Tradition, God has done just that.

That is precisely why this thread is called seeing with new eyes and hearing with new ears.

This passage says why we will need new eyes.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. A scientific mind tells us Jesus was correct, we will not again see the flesh Jesus walk this earth or a flesh Jesus riding upon a cloud. Jesus was Christ "Anointed" of the Holy Spirit. It is that Holy Spirit that is a Christ in every Age and Jesus said

Revelation 2:17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’"

And

Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/A-New-Name

I will end it there, as the entire Bible does need to be seen new eyes and heard with new ears and I am not going to argue the old doctrines. I would rather remain silent.

All the best in life and faith Thomas

Regards Tony
 

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You know we are all saying the dame thing if you will only stop this saviour crap and you guys give up on reincarnation we all know the world is not suffering and he isn't really the last prophet (pbuh)....

As I said before there is a lot of the Bahai concept I like...and a lot of what the bab said...but this thread is as much like proselytizing as 2 kids in white shirts riding bicycles to knock on doors.

I would offer Change never happens if we go with the status quo.

If all are happy with the status quo, new eyes and new ears are not needed and renders all mention of them in scriptures as null and void.

Strange thing is, those that offer the greatest change are those that give these lives for it and Jesus and the Bab are prime examples of how far old eyes and old ears will go to silence the new. In the end, it is all about what God offers humanity.

I say that, as it has naught to do with me, but the choices I make.

Regards Tony
 
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