There is no justice if atheism is true

Aupmanyav

Search, be your own guru.
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
687
Points
108
Location
New Delhi, India
@Ahanu makes a very strange statement in another thread.
Ahanu, how did you arrive at that?
There are laws of the nation and the laws of the society in which you live. Does atheism asks one to disobey those laws?
I submit to both. My being atheist does not exempt me from them.
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

Well-Known Member
Messages
868
Reaction score
231
Points
43
Location
Normanton
@Ahanu makes a very strange statement in another thread.
Ahanu, how did you arrive at that?
There are laws of the nation and the laws of the society in which you live. Does atheism asks one to disobey those laws?
I submit to both. My being atheist does not exempt me from them.
What about the tyrants that make unjust laws, live like kings in opulence and then pass on. They submitted to no laws, they made their own at the expense of many.

Regards Tony
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
406
Points
83
What about the tyrants that make unjust laws, live like kings in opulence and then pass on. They submitted to no laws, they made their own at the expense of many.

Regards Tony
Do you really believe that all tyrants who have made unjust laws and lived in opulence have been atheists?
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
406
Points
83
@Aupmanyav .... The folks who think that atheism must be wicked and lawless cannot have investigated lawlessness and crime within their own religions and among their own believers.
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

Well-Known Member
Messages
868
Reaction score
231
Points
43
Location
Normanton
Do you really believe that all tyrants who have made unjust laws and lived in opulence have been atheists?

You are fully, fully, misunderstanding the reply. It is saying that they will have faced no justice.

There is no justice, if Athiesim is true (No God to answer to)

So how can they face justice, if there is no God, it means they got away with it.

Regards Tony
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
406
Points
83
You are fully, fully, misunderstanding the reply. It is saying that they will have faced no justice.

There is no justice, if Athiesim is true (No God to answer to)

So how can they face justice, if there is no God, it means they got away with it.

Regards Tony
Hello Tony...... I don't understand the above reply, either.
Religion and Gods are not the source of legislation, laws, rules and controls, but humans.

For example, I feel very confident in proposing that the laws of Moses were produced by humans, for humans, for the provision of a very successful people.

Why don't you quote a law which you think came from a God?
 

muhammad_isa

Save Our Souls
Messages
3,135
Reaction score
676
Points
108
Location
Worcester UK
@Ahanu makes a very strange statement in another thread.
No, there is nothing strange about it. He refers to Divine justice.

I said
Take Hitler, for example.
Your belief means that Hitler escaped answering for the suffering that he caused others,
by committing suicide
.

The correct Christian belief, is that he will not escape judgement.
Divine justice is perfect, Holy.
We cannot escape justice by death.
The physical body perishes, and we "give up the ghost", and we return to God, to whom we belong.
 

Tone Bristow-Stagg

Well-Known Member
Messages
868
Reaction score
231
Points
43
Location
Normanton
Hello Tony...... I don't understand the above reply, either.
Religion and Gods are not the source of legislation, laws, rules and controls, but humans.

For example, I feel very confident in proposing that the laws of Moses were produced by humans, for humans, for the provision of a very successful people.

Why don't you quote a law which you think came from a God?
No one can escape justice.

"..O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite..."

So if there is no divine justice, then there are people that get away with injustices and tyranny.

Which confirms

"There is no justice if atheism is true"​

Regards Tony
 

Aupmanyav

Search, be your own guru.
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
687
Points
108
Location
New Delhi, India
What about the tyrants that make unjust laws, live like kings in opulence and then pass on. They submitted to no laws, they made their own at the expense of many.
Like LGBTQ are aberrations or women should not be given powers of authority? Laws made by tyrants do not last long.
 

Aupmanyav

Search, be your own guru.
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
687
Points
108
Location
New Delhi, India
It is saying that they will have faced no justice.
There is no justice, if Athiesim is true (No God to answer to)
Yeah, many people escape punishment for there wicked deeds. It is a fact of life, and that good people suffer. Do you have any evidence that they are punished by Allah after they die? These are just stories.
Nice people, whether theists or atheists, judge their own actions and make corrections. Evil people, whether theists or atheist, do not are for that. I am told the percentage in American prisons of theists is much higher than atheists.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
528
Reaction score
178
Points
43
Eudaimonia: "The good composed of all goods; an ability which suffices for living well; perfection in respect of virtue; resources sufficient for a living creature." - Plato

Platonic philosophy defines morality & ethics based on a Eudaemon life. A life of self-discovery, the evolution of one's potential, and a sense of purpose and meaning. Happiness and Well-Being is the goal of attaining a virtuous morality not based on some non-obligatory moral law (e.g. 'Law Giver'). Non-obligatory moral law means morality cannot be an obligation to doctrine as emphasized by religion or culture. Rather, morality must issue as a principle from the individual's own soul, heart, and conscience as opposed to doctrinally instituted and enforced. Plato believed that Man is inherently moral and that we know the difference between what is beneficial for ourselves and others as opposed to what is detrimental to both.

Speaking strictly from a western left hand path perspective morality & ethics go hand in hand with the gradual atonement with our Greater Self. The further we bring our Greater Self into our mundane existence, the clearer our moral compass becomes. We strive towards a beneficial and virtuous life in accordance with a reason not only for ourselves but for all of Humanity as well (sentience). We maintain that a life of pleasure coincides with a life of virtue and thus morality and ethics are seen as living in harmony with objective and subjective reality.
 

muhammad_isa

Save Our Souls
Messages
3,135
Reaction score
676
Points
108
Location
Worcester UK
Yeah, many people escape punishment for there wicked deeds. It is a fact of life, and that good people suffer..
It is..
..but they won't get away with it in the end..
..you mark my words !

Death is no escape. Do you think that our lives are all for nothing?
Not at all .. it is all "recorded" .. corruption will not be the victor.
 

Aupmanyav

Search, be your own guru.
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
687
Points
108
Location
New Delhi, India
..you mark my words !
Do you think that our lives are all for nothing?
Dear friend, neither you will survive after death , nor I (according to my belief, atoms disperse and never come together again). So what is the use of marking your words.
Of course not. I engendered two children, they have engendered their three children. These children in turn will engender more children. I have helped a few hundred young people to go for higher studies to USA. They must be doing nice work there or may have returned to benefit India. So, my life has not been in vain. Same with other people. We do what we do and pass away.
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
406
Points
83
No, there is nothing strange about it. He refers to Divine justice.

I said

We cannot escape justice by death.
The physical body perishes, and we "give up the ghost", and we return to God, to whom we belong.
If that's what you believe........
But I believe that the only power around here is the chaos of Mother Nature, and so no divine justice more retribution, only laws and justice as decided by humans.
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
406
Points
83
No one can escape justice.

"..O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite..."

So if there is no divine justice, then there are people that get away with injustices and tyranny.

Which confirms

"There is no justice if atheism is true"​

Regards Tony
You're writing to a non-theist deist, Tony.
You believe in a divine law and justice, and I just have to face up to the chaos of Nature.
 

badger

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
406
Points
83
Yeah, many people escape punishment for there wicked deeds. It is a fact of life, and that good people suffer. Do you have any evidence that they are punished by Allah after they die? These are just stories.
Nice people, whether theists or atheists, judge their own actions and make corrections. Evil people, whether theists or atheist, do not are for that. I am told the percentage in American prisons of theists is much higher than atheists.
Hi Aup.....what gets me is the list of dreadful reports coming to light, of the mistreatment of religious 'charities' to children, or the conduct of some religious leaders....they clearly don't believe in any judgement from any divinity.
Religion can talk such hogwash.
 

muhammad_isa

Save Our Souls
Messages
3,135
Reaction score
676
Points
108
Location
Worcester UK
If that's what you believe........
But I believe that the only power around here is the chaos of Mother Nature..
Chaos?
Most of the chaos I see is that which man is responsible for, :(

Is that your name for God .. "Mother Nature"?
Yes I know, you think that nature is "dumb" while you are not. Tut!
 

'Amir Alzzalam

Šayṭānist
Messages
528
Reaction score
178
Points
43
It is..
..but they won't get away with it in the end..
..you mark my words !

Death is no escape. Do you think that our lives are all for nothing?
Not at all .. it is all "recorded" .. corruption will not be the victor.
Roman emperors would wait until on their death bed to get baptized and washed of their sins, this way they could commit as much murder and rape as they wanted and then get a free pass . . . however, no one is going to be judged in the end because there is no one to judge us.
 
Top