There is no justice if atheism is true

badger

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Illogical.
Mankind are all sinners, regardless of their faith.
So....do you admit that religion makes absolutely no difference to the honesty of its followers?
..but that is not to say that somebody who takes their religion seriously, is no different that somebody who doesn't.
[/QUOTE]
So your God makes absolutely no difference....?
The person who "points" at others, has three fingers pointing at themselves.
You might remember that, then
 

badger

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No one gets away with any injustice, faith or no faith, absolutely no one. I quote post 9

Regards Tony
The Bab asked Babis to take the property of those who did not follow him. Will those who obeyed get told off by your God or congratulated?

And do you need me to show you where the Bab wrote such things?
 

muhammad_isa

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So your God makes absolutely no difference....?
Almighty God is not just "my God", He is the Creator of the Universe.
All the Abrahamic faiths believe in the same God.

..and you seem to have problems in comprehension..
I said
that is not to say that somebody who takes their religion seriously, is no different that somebody who doesn't.
It most certainly makes a difference.
 

badger

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Almighty God is not just "my God", He is the Creator of the Universe.
All the Abrahamic faiths believe in the same God.

..and you seem to have problems in comprehension..
I said

It most certainly makes a difference.
Yes, reading your posts can sometimes leave me quite without comprehension.

But, anyway, that's what you believe....... and that's not what I believe. I don't believe in your God.
And clearly, for many believers throughout history their faith has made little difference to their actions in life.
And since I live in a cosmopolitan multi-cultural country its absolutely essential to us all to follow the same legislation, written by humans, just as the Israelites followed laws written by humans after their Exodus. We certainly should not be subjected to the laws of any religion.
 

muhammad_isa

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..clearly, for many believers throughout history their faith has made little difference to their actions in life..
Totally irrelevant to the OP.
OK, you don't believe in a life after death and Divine justice.
That's the whole point.
In your belief, evil-doers can theoretically get away with it .. by dying before being reprimanded.
 

badger

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Totally irrelevant to the OP.
Not so........ a person who believes in a God should surely live a more honest life?
I haver to say that the JWs around where I live do have a very good reputation for honesty/decency.
OK, you don't believe in a life after death and Divine justice.
Now just you copy paste where I have written about life after death! But yes, I don't believe in any divine justice.
That's the whole point.
In your belief, evil-doers can theoretically get away with it .. by dying before being reprimanded.
Sadly, justice for serious criminal offences can be avoided by death, but that is the case for everybody in my opinion.
You mention 'evil-doers', I think of 'evil' as seriously criminal, because I don't believe in tangible evil or a real devil.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

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I wouldn't bank on it..
A person with that attitude might find that they die in disbelief.
..and there is no person on earth who is exempt from suffering after death, even though they might repent.
Have you not heard of purgatory?
I've heard of Santa Claus too, but that doesn't make it real.
 

'Amir Alzzalam

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Ye
I am in the third timeline, this time line is judgments. Everything we do has time associated to it. If you are a piece of shit your time does not become you and you cannot become something again. I believe this is what Jesus was thinking, dyeing for our sins was to find your time so it could not be judged. From what I have taken from the Bible Jesus knew he would have to descend the timelines to be judged himself also. I believe the way minds teach this is you have know who he is first before you can figure out anything inside of him.

Jesus’s mind would find our time and bring it inside of it. Jesus could do this with everything except allowed minds for they are themselves only. A world is able to become something again the same as everything inside a large enough mind or yourself. The only way into this yourself is to figure out himself or Jesus in this case. You see we all become him and all our sins are now his, these sins then can pass off to the yourself and Jesus would just go inside himself to figure himself out knowing nothing of these sins.

Here is the interesting take on this problem though. There are 500 million allowed minds in the veil, 435 million to be about exact. Our population did not exceed this number until around the 1500 hundreds which means not one person at that time could be saved by him. This is also going to be interesting if a messiah arises in the near future how he deals with this kind of time since now there are billions of minds that can find time inside him.

Powessy
Yeah well, your own scripture says something else.

1 Peter 3:21
"And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also – not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (NIV)

1 Corinthians 6:11
"But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (, NIV)
 

'Amir Alzzalam

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No one gets away with any injustice, faith or no faith, absolutely no one. I quote post 9

"..O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite..."

God knows every thought, every action we make, it is set in time and God outside of time, knows the beginning and knows the end.

Regards Tony
Then Christian scripture is a lie. How do you know what goes on after this life? don't tell me your 'god' is talking to you, telling you this.

1 Peter 3:21
"And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also – not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (NIV)

1 Corinthians 6:11
"But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (, NIV)
 

RJM

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Oh ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite..."


Then Christian scripture is a lie. How do you know what goes on after this life? don't tell me your 'god' is talking to you, telling you this.
It's not Christian scripture. It's Baha'u'llah
 

Aupmanyav

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In your belief, evil-doers can theoretically get away with it .. by dying before being reprimanded.
Nothing theoretical about it. It happens all the time. It also happens that the good suffer for no reason.
What is theoretical is your contention that the evil are punished or the good are rewarded after death. There is no evidence for it.
 

Aupmanyav

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Oh ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite..."
It's not Christian scripture. It's Baha'u'llah
Oh, one more prophet of doom, an egoist and narcissist.
 
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RJM

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Roman emperors would wait until on their death bed to get baptized and washed of their sins, this way they could commit as much murder and rape as they wanted and then get a free pass . . .
They had a wrong idea, unless they were repentant, imo.

There are stories of Mexican gangsters asking absolution in advance for intended murders. Total misconception ...
 
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muhammad_isa

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Nothing theoretical about it. It happens all the time..
Well there you are .. that is your belief.
Hence the OP:-

"There is no justice if atheism is true"​


A correct belief [orthodox] teaches that Divine justice after death is true.
Billions of people believe it.
 

Cino

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No one gets away with any injustice, faith or no faith, absolutely no one. I quote post 9

"..O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity is following you, and that grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not the deeds ye have committed have been blotted from My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My Pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite..."

God knows every thought, every action we make, it is set in time and God outside of time, knows the beginning and knows the end.

Regards Tony

I read it and understand what you are saying about your beliefs.

It does not address what @Aupmanyav wrote in post #1 at all, however.

That post was about an absolute claim equating atheism with an utter lack of justice. Many posts were made countering that claim, which you did not address. You told us about your beliefs.

Can you see how beliefs, as much as you or anyone else are entitled to holding them, can not be used to support an argument taking place outside the group of believers, or between believers and non-believers?

I think this might be the cause for both your and our frustration in this thread.

There are stories of Mexican gangsters asking absolution in advance for intended murders. Total misconception ...

Let me use this as an example of what I wrote above.

Those gangsters believe that they are getting the absolution - it is their belief that it will be forgiven. Just as Tony believes that there can be no justice without God. But neither belief addresses the situation that there are judicial systems which work just fine without reference to any deities, and which often manage to get gangsters convicted.
 

muhammad_isa

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It does not address what @Aupmanyav wrote in post #1 at all, however.

That post was about an absolute claim equating atheism with an utter lack of justice. Many posts were made countering that claim, which you did not address. You told us about your beliefs.
I don't think that @Ahanu was referring to worldly justice systems.
..so @Aupmanyav misunderstood the issue in his OP.

It is about Divine justice .. that an atheist does not believe in,
hence what happens in the world can be seen to be unfair, and people act accordingly.

A true believer doesn't believe that anybody can get away with anything, eventually.
 

RJM

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Gravity rules nature 'red in tooth and claw' and death is the end for all material entities. But spiritual law may seem to directly contradict natural law -- but I may have to lose a lot ... or be prepared to lose everything ... Imo
 

Cino

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I don't think that @Ahanu was referring to worldly justice systems.
..so @Aupmanyav misunderstood the issue in his OP.

It is about Divine justice .. that an atheist does not believe in,
hence what happens in the world can be seen to be unfair, and people act accordingly.

A true believer doesn't believe that anybody can get away with anything, eventually.

I understand, but doesn't restricting it to divine justice turn @Ahanu's assertion into a bit of a tautology? Obviously, there is no divine justice in the world view of an atheist.

Oh, and in my atheist view, absolutely no-one gets away with anything. We shall all die, rich and poor alike, saint and sinner alike. No way around that. If we want to be fair or just, if we want fairness and justice to increase, now is the time. No putting it off to a future life.
 
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