Nietzsche

[Aupmanyav]

Thoughts will keep coming, unless one busies his mind with with a question to ponder on. That is the next step to Pratyahara in Patanjali's Yoga Shastra - Dharana (removing thoughts from many and concentrate on one, respectively).

Yoga - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[wil]

To me thoughts keep coming if you think about stopping them.

But if you quit thinking, no thought does happen and you "wake up" sometime later, with knowledge you had not thought of or an intuition, or a compelling urge to do something. But whatever it is, you don't recall the impetus or the thoughts that lead to the information you "awoke" with after never being asleep, just a state of not consciously thinking thoughts

 

[Aupmanyav]

In my case, 'no thought' was (mighty) pleasing and momentary, as I was seeking answers to my questions; and it did help me to get my answers.

 

[Ahanu]

Further, I find his examination of Judaism and Christianity as 'slave morality' absolutely fascinating and insightful in many ways. But I also find it a bit like a strawman. He takes the worst of religion and tells a story about it.

I am not sure what you mean. Usually we would say the best of religion is an action of compassion. Those actions of compassion are rooted in slave morality in Nietzsche's view. Slave morality is what we would equate with the best of religion, right?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am not sure what you mean. Usually we would say the best of religion is an action of compassion. Those actions of compassion are rooted in slave morality in Nietzsche's view. Slave morality is what we would equate with the best of religion, right?

IMHO, religion has not much to do with compassion, it is about part of being in a group. Love and compassion is extended selectively to the members of the group or those whom they would like to have in the group (proselytization). for others religions have differences, if not hate. For example, Christian schools in India, at one time, provided education to only those who would become Christians. Of course, the Christian schools in North America were much worse.

 

[Cino]

I am not sure what you mean. Usually we would say the best of religion is an action of compassion. Those actions of compassion are rooted in slave morality in Nietzsche's view. Slave morality is what we would equate with the best of religion, right?

Maybe at this point it would be good to have a common understanding what Nietzsche was about when he was talking about slave morality, and also its twin, master morality. @Ahanu, would you? I think you are by far the best informed among us regarding Nietzsche.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

I am not sure what you mean. Usually we would say the best of religion is an action of compassion. Those actions of compassion are rooted in slave morality in Nietzsche's view. Slave morality is what we would equate with the best of religion, right?

I framed that very poorly.
I would rather say that Nietzsches "explication" for how slave morality emerged in Judaism was very reductive.
That he reasoned that the virtues in Judaism and Christianity, such as compassion, was glorified not for their own sake, but in a sort of spite of their "masters" and their "master morality". Where masters valued strength, pride and power. And since these things were denied the Jewish people, they adopted a counter-morality in the form of humility and subservience to something greater.

Do you disagree with my reading? I meekly submit to your great knowledge.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I suppose the same is true of the successors of Bahaollah. They came to realize their weakness, where as the manifestation implored Allah to punish those who did not accept him. I seem to remember his words, "Great is the retribution of Allah". Then, of course, Shoghi talked about a Bahai militia putting those who differ, in line.

 

[Ahanu]

I think you are by far the best informed among us regarding Nietzsche.

Such exceedingly lavish praise has me uneasily squirming in my seat, @Cino.

Not only do I have a strong distaste for your praise, but it also makes this conversation feel less authentic to me.

I would rather say that Nietzsches "explication" for how slave morality emerged in Judaism was very reductive.

Thanks for your clarification. Do you think there is a non-reductive explanation for morality?

That he reasoned that the virtues in Judaism and Christianity, such as compassion, was.glorified not for their own sake, but in a sort of spite of their "masters" and their "master morality". Where masters valued strength, pride and power. And since these things were denied the Jewish people, they adopted a counter-morality in the form of humility and subservience to something greater.

Do you disagree with my reading?

I agree. Lower humans seek to turn their morality into a weapon to whip and make "slaves of those who are naturally better,” the higher. The lower invented morality - like gracious acts of compassion - to hinder the higher from attaining their highest levels of potential.

I meekly submit to your great knowledge.

I humbly kowtow before your greater knowledge.

 

[Ahanu]

IMHO, religion has not much to do with compassion

Thanks for your opinion, @Aupmanyav.

I suppose the same is true of the successors of Bahaopllah. They came to realize their weakness, where as the manifestation implored Allah to punish those who did not accept him. I seem to remember his words, "Great is the retribution of Allah". Then, of course, Shoghi talked about a Bahai militia putting those who differ, in line.

I'm not sure what talk from Shoghi Effendi you're referring to. Which words do you seem to remember from Baha'u'llah? I'm not sure about that either. Perhaps you can be more specific?

 

[Cino]

Such exceedingly lavish praise has me uneasily squirming in my seat, @Cino.

Not only do I have a strong distaste for your praise, but it also makes this conversation feel less authentic to me.

I am sorry to have caused you distaste.

 

[RJM]

Not only do I have a strong distaste for your praise, but it also makes this conversation feel less authentic to me.

Sheesh! What's all this about?

 

[Cino]

Sheesh! What's all this about?

The abyss didn't just look back, but made compliments...

(just joking! Don't take seriously)

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Do you think there is a non-reductive explanation for morality?

Certainly not. But what rubbed me the wrong way is that it takes faith entirely out of the equation. It also place such great importance on the pagan rulers in the forming of the Jewish and Christian faiths. I think most believers make a much dimmer reading of his work than you:

The lower invented morality - like gracious acts of compassion - to hinder the higher from attaining their highest levels of potential.

This is a different but very interesting reading than my own. I will have to think on it and have it in mind the next time I read him.

I believe Martin Luther King Jr. made an interesting comment on the dichotomy of power and love which I think was in response to Nietzsche. But you should look that one up yourself.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Such exceedingly lavish praise has me uneasily squirming in my seat, @Cino.

Not only do I have a strong distaste for your praise, but it also makes this conversation feel less authentic to me.

I was just poking around the forum and found this -- I know it's from a bit ago

It seemed @Cino was just saying you were well informed...

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm not sure what talk from Shoghi Effendi you're referring to. Which words do you seem to remember from Baha'u'llah? I'm not sure about that either. Perhaps you can be more specific?

Though delayed, here is the answer:

"Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing!”
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 32

 

[Ahanu]

Though delayed, here is the answer:

"Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing!”
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 32

Thanks!

I suppose the same is true of the successors of Bahaollah. They came to realize their weakness, where as the manifestation implored Allah to punish those who did not accept him. I seem to remember his words, "Great is the retribution of Allah". Then, of course, Shoghi talked about a Bahai militia putting those who differ, in line.

Please quote the text from Shoghi Effendi.