Jesus Christ, he will return?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Postmaster, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Gal. 3:27-29: "All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (So, from God’s standpoint, it is no longer natural descent from Abraham that determines who are Abraham’s seed.)so this scripture is not out of context the 144,000 are not fleshly jews but spiritual jews



     
  2. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I'm very familiar with the passage. I'm also familiar with the gentiles (eh, that's us non-Jews) having the "privilige" of being grafted on to the tree of life...

    If the issue of lineage were not important, there would not be whole chapters dedicated to it within scripture. Nor would Christ have pointed out that we were given a special privilige that was originally meant for others.

    I find it ironic that some would call themselves spiritual Jews, yet show disdain for actual Jews...that just doesn't sit right.

    I am grateful that I am an adopted son of God, but I understand that the Jews are the apple of God's eye, always have been, and always will. How do I know? Yahweh said so in the OT. ;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  3. didymus

    didymus Well-Known Member

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    I think there is some vital information in 1 Corinthians 35-49
    I can't tell if Paul is talking at all times of Jesus or if he is speaking of us also as being like Christ in our resurrection.

    Earlier someone mentioned Jesus being the first and the last. I don't believe jesus is God and created the universe.

    42 So it will be with the resurection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable, it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power,.... it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
    This to me speaks of Jesus being born natural, of the flesh. he was raised a spiritual body not a fleshly body.

    45..So it is written:"The first Adam a living being, the last Adam a life giving spirit.

    This is referring to Jesus Christ in my opinion. Jesus was the last Adam, he was raised a life giving spirit. Then it says we will bear likeness to both the earthly man and the heavenly man. Maybe we are all the first and last adams, we are the first adam in our fleshly bodies and last adams when we are raised in the spirit.
     
  4. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on every point.
     
  5. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    The people who do not accept the Gospel of John are those that attempt to undeify Christ. The book of John in fullness was proclaiming Christs deity.. So Im not too surprised. lol
     
  6. truthseeker

    truthseeker Well-Known Member

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    So when do you rightly divide when to interpret the scriptures in a literal manner or in a spiritual manner? You take the rapture literally but then those who are taken in the rapture you try to interpret spiritually. Same thing with most of the information that you have presented when it comes to Jesus' return and who he 'likes' and 'dislikes'.

    As we understand it, God doesn't go back on his word. So the Jews are still his chosen people. That scripture does not tell me that natural descent no longer determines who are Abraham's seed. It tells me that those of us who are in union with Christ Jesus are advocated for.

    :eek: And the truth shall set us free. :eek:
     
  7. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    . The word "rapture" does not occur in the inspired Scriptures

    Paul wrote: "He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code.romans 2;28-29we all know the early christians were jews, but now it is spiritual circumcision, God is not partial ,from all nations make up the 144,000

     
  8. truthseeker

    truthseeker Well-Known Member

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    In the literal sense, no. In the spiritual sense, yes. An action that the English language calls the Rapture - something that your organization is waiting on pins and needles for.

    The word says 12,000 from each 12 tribes. Is that not literal enough? Christians, Gentile as well as Jew, were being martyred when Revelation was written. God revealed 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes from which a Gentile does not belong. If there were 12 churches you could win me. but there were 7.

    And your scriptures are inspired of a misled, fearful, resentful, and outcast leader and those among him. God has the same love for you that he has for the rest of mankind. Jesus died so that you might be free. His message is one that leads all people to the righteousness of God that is given through Love. "The Lord is good, His mercy is everlasting, and His Truth endureth all generations" The one truth that endureth all generations is Love. Love breaks all bondage and sets the beloved out on a course enlightened by Grace. We are saved by Grace.
     
  9. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    the 144,000 are from all tribes of the earth the number is literal, but they are spiritual israelites not literal Israelites.
    Gal. 3:27-29: "All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (So, from God’s standpoint, it is no longer natural descent from Abraham that determines who are Abraham’s seed.).

    we should also take into account these earlier statements in Romans: "He is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code." (2:28, 29) "Not all who spring from Israel are really ‘Israel.’"—9:6.

    Acts 4:11, 12: "[Regarding Jesus Christ, the apostle Peter was moved by holy spirit to say to the Jewish rulers and older men in Jerusalem:] This is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’ Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." (Although the nation of natural Israel no longer enjoys special divine favor, the way is open to individual Jews, as it is to people of all nations, to benefit from the salvation that is made possible through Jesus the Messiah.)any way getting back to the return of christ,as we have gone off subject somewhat







    What​
    is the meaning of Jesus’ coming "in the same manner" as he ascended to heaven?













    Acts 1:9-11: "While they [Jesus’ apostles] were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision. And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, also, look! two men in white garments stood alongside them, and they said: ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from you into the sky will come thus in the same manner as you have beheld him going into the sky.’" (Notice that this says "the same manner," not the same body. What was the "manner" of his ascent? As verse 9 shows, he disappeared from view, his departure being observed only by his disciples. The world in general was not aware of what happened. The same would be true of Christ’s return.)​







    What​
    is meant by his ‘coming on the clouds’ and ‘every eye seeing him’?













    Rev. 1:7: "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him." (Also Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27)​







    What​
    is indicated by "clouds"? Invisibility. When an airplane is in a thick cloud or above the clouds, people on the ground usually cannot see it, although they may hear the roar of the engines. Jehovah told Moses: "I am coming to you in a dark cloud." Moses did not see God, but that cloud indicated Jehovah’s invisible presence. (Ex. 19:9; see also Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 11:25.) If Christ were to appear visibly in the heavens, it is obvious that not "every eye" would see him. If he appeared over Australia, for example, he would not be visible in Europe, Africa, and the Americas, would he?


















    In​
    what sense will ‘every eye see him’? They will discern from events on earth that he is invisibly present. Also referring to sight that is not physical, John 9:41 reports: "Jesus said to [the Pharisees]: ‘If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, "We see." Your sin remains.’" (Compare Romans 1:20.) Following Christ’s return, some persons show faith; they recognize the sign of his presence. Others reject the evidence, but when Christ goes into action as God’s executioner of the wicked, even they will discern from the manifestation of his power that the destruction is not from men but from heaven. They will know what is happening because they were warned in advance. Because of what is overtaking them, they will "beat themselves in grief."












    Who are "those who pierced him"? Literally, Roman soldiers did this at the time of Jesus’ execution. But they have long been dead. So this must refer to people who similarly mistreat, or ‘pierce,’ Christ’s true followers during "the last days."—Matt. 25:40, 45(reasoning from the scriptures published by jehovahs witness)this certainly makes perfect sense to me

     
  10. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    lol Mee, you should at least preview your post before submitting it when you cut and paste.

    The OT is God dealing with Israel.. Revelation is Gods final dealings with Israel.. You can see this if you read it for yourself.. at the beginning he talks of the Church then at one point His attention goes strictly to Israel. Using logic suggests that the church and Israel are two seperate sets of people.

    I would also suggest that anyone can force scripture into any belief system the awesome thing is that God provided several scriptures to use as reference. satan is very smart and Im sure hes read the scripture a million more times than we ever could for the purpose of deceiving the children of God. But hes certainly not smarter than God. The Holy Spirit reveals all truth..

    " I am the Good Shepherd, and know My sheep, and am known of Mine. As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down My life for the sheep... My sheep hear My Voice, and I know them, and they follow Me"(John 10:14-15,27).
     
  11. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    This is true, Faithfulservant. We saw how Satan tempted Jesus in the desert using the verses of scripture. The Pharisees knew their scripture inside and out, yet they did not see the Truth in Jesus. What is the difference? I agree with you FS that the difference is the Holy Spirit. When we are asked to test everything I think this means are to look for the fruits of the Spirit just as they are spelled out in your signature from Gal 5:

    The fruit of the Spirit are good wherever we find them.

    lunamoth
     
  12. benOddo

    benOddo Member

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    But we can not forget one thing, the 10 tribes that were carried off, and scattered accross Asia, Europe, would become as numerous as the sands of the sea. And over the course of 3500 years lost sight of that fact, whether they lived in Russia, Sweden, Italy, Iran, or as far away as North America, today. Where in the passing of many generations, Names changed, customs adopted, and beliefs formed. God knows who His children are.

    We also tend to forget, it's not Abraham's plan, or Moses plan, but God's Plan for mankind. That was foretold in His Word, from Genesis in the O.T. Creation Week, to the Book of Revelations in the N.T. , everything came to pass and will come to pass, at the APPOINTED TIMES OF GOD ALMIGHTY.

    We would do well to read, and to consider and understand His Word. And Pray, "Come O'Lord, Come" ! and be watchful, because the Seventieth Week, Daniel the Prophet, spoke of is close at hand.

    Peace,
    ben Oddo
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Heard the song on my way to work yesterday morning, laughed in delight and thought about you...;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  14. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Hey Q :) Same here whenever I see a military uniform.

    It's amazing how our virtual life here creeps into our hard copy life. :D

    Your friend,
    lunamoth
     
  15. Bull's Eye

    Bull's Eye New Member

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    I can't recall at the moment which philosopher it was that said Messianic Religions are Religions of the suppressed. That it is the attempt of the suppressed to flip the script.

    Getting back to what I quoted from you, I strongly suggest you look into ancient Mesopotamian legends - Zoroaster/Zarathrustra - Judaism - Mithra - Catholicism - Gnosticism - Islam - Protestantism. You may see even more of a trend than you did. The fact is that for a new religion to emerge it must incorporate with the existing religion. For example, that is why Christianity's beliefs and practices are repeats from the Mithra cult, and also why it's theological philosophies echo that of Zoroaterism and Judaism. You will only see this after you have familiarised yourself with the various religions. Nearly all religions that are no longer Pagan, are inter-related in one way or another. And the main thread or reason behind it is the call upon followers to multiply. If you look back to the bloom of this idea, and I believe it was Zoroastrianism (650-3000 B.C.E. no-one can agree), that is ALLOT of time to go forth and multiply. Far longer than 30-40 C.E.
     
  16. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Jesus’ second coming, or, more accurately, his presence. The Greek word pa·rou·si´a that many translations render "coming" at Matthew 24:3 does not mean a time when he would come or arrive but means that he has already arrived and is on hand, is present. In Jesus’ case it means that he is invisibly present as Jehovah’s enthroned King and is reigning from heaven. This is in keeping with Jesus’ statement at John 14:19: "A little longer and the world will behold me no more." Since he would not be physically visible, he gave a sign that would indicate his return and invisible presence as Jehovah’s reigning King..........it makes a big difference to our correct understanding if the translation we use is using the correct meaning.

     
  17. Proph 1

    Proph 1 Well-Known Member

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    God's plan for saving people consisted of sending his Son to die a sacrifical death in mankind's place. When the news of what Jesus has done gets a chance to be heard by all, he will come again to get his own, and to judge his enemies.

    He's Coming Back!
     
  18. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Well i think you have some interesting points.. I agree with your statement:

    "Nearly all religions that are no longer Pagan, are inter-related in one way or another."

    And i also agree that the Zoroastrianism is very important to undestand... One of the apocryphal Gospels mentions that the Magi were repsonding to a prophecy of Zoroaster in seeking the Christ and so on.

    I'm unsure what you meant by "multiplying".

    The concept of a returning Saviour is found though in the Zoroastrian prophecies of "Saoshyans". In the Baha'i Faith we also have reference to fulfilling prophecies long before and recognizing the interrelatedness os religions. You might be interested in thgis article:

    http://bahai-library.com/articles/buck.zoroaster.html

    Each age we believe has special challenges and requirements and that is why there is a renewal of the original truths in a new garment or in a sense a "return".

    - Art
    :cool:
     
  19. Proph 1

    Proph 1 Well-Known Member

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    Some people continue to mock his Coming, as the scriptures said they would do. They say things like:

    "All things have been going the same as the begining of time. There was always wars, earthquakes, plagues, etc. Where is the promise of his Coming? When is he coming...Is he coming?"

    Some people say these things and forget that the scriptures says:

    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

    In God's AMAZING LOVE he waits for us to repent and come to the Savior so that we may find life. Yet man continue to willingly doubt. They dont realize that is Mercy thats been keeping them alive all this time. Its mercy that allows them to wake up another day that they may find the Savior and live. Its MERCY thats not killing them. Yet men chose not to recieve God's gift.

    Why!?
     
  20. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I believe those passages refer specifially to the Holy Spirit being here with us now (since the time Jesus ascended into Heaven 40 days after rising from the dead). In fact Jesus said He had to leave for awhile, so that the Holy Spirit could come. Further more, the proof of the Holy Spirit's presence was noted when the Disciples experienced a wind and tongues of flame resting over their foreheads. Immediately after, they (newly emboldened by the Holy Spirit), went out and spoke to the crowds, and the crowds understood the disciples, each in their own language, all at the same time. I believe that day was and is called Pentacostal Sunday, or the Feast of the Pentacost.

    v/r

    Q
     

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