The Nephilim Race

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Rouge47, Apr 26, 2005.

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Read the thread and then decide: do you believe in the Nephilim Race?

  1. Yes

    54.8%
  2. No

    45.2%
  1. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    There are many questions about the Nephilim race. I too have many to ask. First I'll start by giving a briefing or run down of the Nephilim.

    Genesis 6:4 states that the Nephilim were on the earth around the time of Noah (but before the flood) and fallen-angels came down to the women to have offspring, thus creating the Nephilim. They were brutal monsters and were renowned for their sins. Upon devouring all of man kinds resources they began to consume humans. A Nephilim is hybrid offspring created by the sexual union of human and angel.

    Now my major question is: what are the Nephilim now? Some say that they went on to be aliens and some say that they are now the evil spirits and demons that commonly poses people and drive them mad.

    You know, Goliath was concidered to be a decendant of the Nephilim himself. That really blew my mind because if they ate humans why would he help the army that he was with. True, Goliath was after Noah and the flood and the flood should erased the race for good. But apparently another sect of fallen angels came to earth and created the race again.

    Let know any new things about the Nephilim or something that I didn't know. I'm writing a thesis on it. I would be glad to credit someone.

    Paul J.:)
     
  2. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Paul James! (Good name!) Welcome to CR!

    Perhaps what I might add you are already familiar with, and it seems I recall an earlier thread dealing with the subject.

    I may have things confused as to exact names, but in essence you are correct in that Genesis tells us fallen angels took human women as wives and begat children. These are the races that God intended to destroy with the flood of Noah. Genesis also tells us that a second influx happened after the flood, resulting in another race that became a thorn in the side of Israel when they entered the Holy Land after wandering in the Sinai desert. This race, I forget the name given them, is mentioned not only concerning Goliah, but also Og whose bedstead is mentioned. If I recall correctly in the stories concerning David, Goliah was only the first of his family David killed. I seem to recall mention of Goliah's father and at least one if not more brothers. We often think of Goliah standing alone to challenge the army of the Israelites, but the picture I have long held after reading the story (in fairness, I forget which books exactly) is that Goliah was the leader or captain of an army of giants. I am not familiar with the bit about eating "men," but if such were indeed so, then I would think two things: one is that it wouldn't be a concern because "men" were not in Goliah's army, and two is that it is probably a reference to the specific religious practice among certain "heathen" religions of the area and time to eat the flesh of dead babies sacrificed to their idols. This is one of the main things God had issues with, and a reason given for the detruction of these races. I wonder if Bananabrain or Dauer could give a little better insight from the Jewish perspective?

    One quick addition, and I haven't time to look it up, but there is mention in the New Testament that there will be a third influx during the final years leading up to the time of Jacob's troubles in Revelation.
     
  3. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    As I understand it from my resources, it is only one interpretation that the Nephilim are fallen angels and are as you describe them. Genesis 6:4 does not say much except that "sons of God" (nephilim) took "daughters of men" and that there were "giants in those days." Where is all the rest of the information about them coming from?
     
  4. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    There's a *big* long thread coming on this - I'll simply post up my notes quoting from other sites and publications, and let people add up the bricks as they wish. It may be a little extensive, though - the Nephilim is one of those topics that simply refuses to stay within a narrow focus.
     
  5. didymus

    didymus New Member

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    According to my source the nephilim were giants in Hebrew lore, they were also known to be fallen angels or their offspring (the "sons of God") who cohabited with the daughters of men, as in Genesis 6. Closely related were the emim("terrors"), the rephaim("weakeners"), the gibborium("giants"), the zamzummim("achievers")

    Numbers 13:33There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.

    Anak/Anakim; giants- the offspring of fallen angels and mortal women. The anakim were so tall that, according to Zohar, "The Hebrews were like grasshoppers in comparison."

    The angels Uzza and Azael are singled out as having begotten children "whom they called anakim." Original name of anakim was nefilim.

    In Ginzberg's The Legend of the Jews I, it is stated that the anakim "touched the sun with their necks." This is consonant with the view, often expressed in rabbinic and Islamic writings that angels reached from Heaven to earth just as Adam did when he was first formed and as Israfel did, or does.

    Head of the Nephilim was Helel.
    According to the 9th century writer Hiwi al Balkhi, the nephilim were the builders of the tower of Babel.

    Helel- in Canaanitish mythology, a fallen angel, son of Sahar or Sharer, a winged deity. Helel sought to usurp the throne of the chief god and ,as punishment, was cast down into the abyss.

    Generally speaking, angels can have no offspring, since they are pure spirits; but when angels sin, "when they put on the corruptibility of the flesh" and cohabit with mortal women, they are capable of producing progeny.
     
  6. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    Great post, didymus - I don't remember reading so much about Helel, but Azrael is one that comes with a wide background.
     
  7. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I have been doing much research lately and I am finding a lot of different conclusions on certain, reasonable, documents and thesis'. I also believe that more information is found withen the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    These are very excellent posts and much I have learned from them. I wish to learn more. I believe I, Brian is right this could be an extensive topic. I take much interest in these types.

    I have recently found out that their king is named Nimrod. I believe I saw his name in another forum yesterday but I forget which one. I ran across a thesis not to long ago about their final distruction. A man named H. R. Button (not to sure his full name) wrote about the Nephilim race and described that God sent the angel Gabriel to ignite a civil war among the race. In turn, destorying them all.

    Thank you I have learned a lot, but keep posting please, I am very excited about learning more.:D

    Paul J.
     
  8. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar´ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment; and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people; (2 peter 2; 4-5)

    At the global Flood, the rebellious angels dematerialized and returned in disgrace to the spirit realm. God punished them by prohibiting them from again materializing human bodies. The Nephilim, the superhuman offspring of the disobedient angels, all perished. Only Noah and his small family survived the Deluge

    The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now "spirits in prison," having been ‘thrown into Tartarus’ and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable again to materialize as they did prior to the Flood.—1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6.this is what jehovahs witness believe

     
  9. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    You are most certainly correct, mee. The angels responsible surely did not go unpunished for their sins against God. They were sent to hell to be tortured.

    By the way I found some information. I have just recently discovered that the angels were actually angels from hell. They were the ones that followed Satan and worshiped him. These angels were refered to as fallen angels. They came to earth in the first place to teach humans in rightousness. But of rightousness of hell, or heaven? Hell, of coarse. They taught humans how to construct swords and make war. They then turned their eyes to the daughters of men and gave birth to the Nephilim race.

    To get a good thrilling adventure of the race you should buy "Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness." Lara Croft must stop a black alchemist from awakening the Nephilim Race and making it the dominant race on the planet.

    But enough about games. I have also learned that the Neanderthal race was a branch off of the Nephilim race. You can find teh remains of many in the Neander Valley in Germany, just north of Dusseldorf. There yoiu can unlock the many secrets and historical events of the Neanderthal and possibly the Nephilim as well.

    Take care,
    Paul J.
     
  10. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    I honestly hope this doesn't offend, but as an anthropologist I'm understandably a bit skeptical that the Neanderthals were related to Nephilim. What evidence is there that the Neanderthals were anything other than a subspecies of Homo sapiens? All the current scientific evidence points to that direction; the Neanderthals were not too remarkably different from H. sapiens sapiens (us) and most of them would not be able to be picked out of a crowd if you put them in a business suit. We don't know at this point, but many scientists think the Neanderthals did not actually go extinct but rather their genes intermingled with H. sapiens sapiens as we radiated outward from Africa.

    I realize for some people, the science of human evolution and population is completely irrelevant, as they believe humans were created just as they are now not five thousand years ago. But as a scientist, I'm having a hard time buying into Neanderthals being the progeny of angels and humans. Additionally, is there any evidence that giants ever existed on earth? The fossil record actually shows humans getting taller over time, not shorter. The earliest people were only about 3 1/2 to 4 feet tall. Is there an explanation in any of the religious texts that says what happened to the Nephilim corpses?
     
  11. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, all!

    Ummm, I wanted to believe this too. But when I looked into it, it just didn't add up. Path of one covered a lot of the stuff I found. I really good researcher in the field of anthropology around the time of Neolithic humanity is a fellow named Glen(n?) Morton. He's got some great stuff to consider.

    Yes, I read about the hybrid child. I brought some of the info out in the morality in evolution thread, I think. Or was it the language thread? While Neandertal were larger and better developed than Cro-Magnon, they apparently could and did interbreed.

    Not that it matters, but I think it is more like 6000 years, on the threshold of the 7th millenium. Even then, I don't know that it was a new influx, although that is certainly a possibility in my mind. But there was a major awakening in the human mind among those humans already here (6th day creation of Genesis) long before Eden, presumably again at Eden (no evidence) possibly dawning the copper age, and a huge mental awakening "post-flood" that led to the dawn of modern technology (agriculture, building construction, war as an art, astronomy, writing, etc. etc.) and the ages known to us as bronze and iron.

    I've been looking and asking for some time, without a lot to go on. Some myth and folklore, and not much else. I am still curious where Jules Verne got the idea for giant humans for "Journey to the Center of the Earth," he was noted for developing his ideas from the known sciences of his day.

    Did anybody else catch the piece in the news over the last couple of months, about a new "race" of humans discovered in the Southeast Asian islands. Apparently these people averaged about 6 inches shorter than the average pygmy, were quite adept with hunting skills and are presumed to have had a cooperative society. And their remains date well into the Neolithic age, up to around 10 thousand years ago, making them contemporary with Lascaux(sp?). The point being, there were at least three "races" or "species" (depending on researcher) of humans contemporary with each other at around 15 thousand years ago.

    None I am aware of. The only mention in the Bible is of the iron bedstead of Og.
     
  12. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I don't think Nimrod was one of the Nephilim. I could stand to be corrected, but the stories I am familiar with make Nimrod's daddy out to be a fellow named Cush, the son of Ham, the son of Noah (as I recall). I seem to recall mention of this in Genesis. Nimrod's mother, and later wife according to some, was a woman named Semiramis. It is said that through these 3 specific people that idolatry was introduced to humanity. So yes, the connection with Babel according to both the Bible and external sources. No to the connection concerning Nimrod and the Nephilim, at least by my understanding of those same sources.
     
  13. didymus

    didymus New Member

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    I always took the story of the Nephilim to be myth. Does it state how big these creatures were. Maybe they were the dinosaurs;)
     
  14. FriendRob

    FriendRob New Member

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  15. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    My apologies to anyone who was confused. I went back to the research I found about the Neanderthal and Nimrod. Appariently the man who worte the research was a deranged lunatic who was under house arrest and a serioius drinking problem. Maybe from now on I'll just get my research from famous philosiphers and such, ones that I can trust to have more reasonable answers.

    And yes, the Nephilim were giants and not dinosaurs, not to offend anyone. This is why some believe that Goliath was to be a Nephilim or a decendant of them, atleast. The race had horrible posture and were strong enough to crush bones with a single fist, talk about a bad temper:) .

    Sorry for any confusion,
    Paul J.
     
  16. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I know how you feel. I took the story to be a myth to when first heard about it. I thought myself, "Now how could there possibly be giants then, it doesn't make since." But now I understand and I become more interested in learning stuff everyday.
     
  17. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    Yep, I caught that and am rather excited about it! A lot of us always wondered if people could be miniaturized as many other species from islands are. (Islands are fascinating cases of evolution, if you agree with that theory, because the selective pressures on islands are quite different from mainland areas and there is geographic isolation of genetic pools.) A lot of anthropologists thought that humans could not be miniaturized because it would make the brain case too small.

    Interestingly enough, the local indigenous people had told researchers for years that there were originally a dwarf people that had lived there way back when. Here's one definitive case where "legend" turned out to be fact.

    As for the overlapping species... this happened a number of times from the beginning with Australopithecus species. There were quite a few Australopithecus species that overlapped in time and location, and H. habilis overlapped with Australopithecus, H. erectus with H. habilis, etc. It is what one would expect to see. There is a lot of debate what happened with H. sapiens though. Some think H. sapiens originated solely in Africa and then radiated outwards without interbreeding. Others think as they migrated, they did interbreed with Neanderthals. And still others think there was always a genetic flow due to constant migration, and so H. sapiens was a product of this interaction and that we still bear those genes.

    According to modern dating methods, even H. sapiens sapiens (our own species) dates back more than 100,000 years though. Domestication of the first animals dates to about 10,000 years ago (dogs and sheep came first). I've never figured out a reconciliation between the 6,000 years or so of earthly history that is Biblically promoted versus the scientific conclusions. I guess it just isn't that important to me to reconcile the two, but more power to anyone who figures out a way to do it.
     
  18. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Here is some more information for you from another thread :

    http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2043

    Perhaps you can glean more information, perhaps not. Good luck on your thesis. ;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  19. Flame

    Flame New Member

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    Has anyone ever heard of Chuck Missler? He is a Biblical scholor that teaches on the nephilim and its possible connection to the UFOs as part as Satanic deceptions. Its very interesting stuff!
     
  20. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Welcome to CR Flame. Here we discuss our views (all of us). Referencing others is fine, but what you and I think, as well as all others here is important. It is a discussion...care to join? ;)

    v/r

    Q
     

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