Abogado del Diablo said:
samk313 said:Islam is a religion of Monotheism,the belief of One God ALLAH, this name of God is the true name of God which is said by the Arab Christians and said by Prophet Jesus(may peace be upon him) in the ARAMIAC language),so how can Frankiln Graham say the God of Islam is not the same God?
samk313 said:And Franklin Graham is refering to women being forced to wear the veil,he should think again about one of the women pious woman in religion the Virgin Mary(Mariam in arabic),she has set an example to all women regardless of faith,in how to preserve modesty,there is simply no debate about this.
samk313 said:The masses of 'so called Christians' dont or haven't followed the ways of Prophet Jesus Christ(may peace be upon him),a) Christian men do not circumcise,b)Jesus Christ(may peace be upon him) did not eat pork,c)He did not drink intoxicant(alcohol),d)sex before marriage is not allowed,d)homosexuality is not allowed,e) women to dress modestly( to follow the modesty of the Virgin Mary),the list could be endless.The lawlessness of the masses across the western world should be considered,no one is following the way of Prophet Jesus christ(may peace be upon him). and it is very wrong to attack muslims because of foreign policies set out by the west, the religion of Islam should not be attacked when it is followed by millions of people for the past 1400 years and is still the fastest growing religion in the world.
I am aware that Muslims believe that Jesus was a true Prophet of God.samk313 said:It is so strange to note that the Christian faith are unaware that Muslims believe in Prophet Jesus Christ(may peace be upon him)and they believe in his return, they would need to do more research on the Islamic religion to realise that it is the truth and the Holy QURAN has not been meddled with by human hands unlike the Bible and the Torah which has so many inconsistancies.
Saltmeister said:My view as a Christian as to why the so-called "God of Islam" is not the same as the God of the Christians, is that if God is a Spirit, then the spirit of Islam is not the same as the Spirit of Christ. That would then mean that it isn't the same God, because the same Spirit would not give us two different systems of thought. One of the two spirits/Spirits is an impostor and a liar (no offence meant)...
Quahom1 said:Hi, Salt,
Then if the God of Islam is not the same as the God of the Christians...what is the God of Judea?..
The error in your logic is that the God we all believe in is not seperate Gods, but rather the One God of Abraham. From there people changed the perspective.
Christians took their cue from the Jews, and Islam garnered its current philosophy from both Jews and Christians.
Some say it is a logical progression of Abrahamic faith.
Saltmeister said:Well, from my point of view, Judaism isn't a different system of thought, because Christianity is based on it. Therefore, the God of Israel and the Jews, the God of the Church and Christians are the same Spirit and same God.
Hey, don't think I don't know about this progression theory -- that we all worship the same God -- I've heard it all too often and it has driven me crazy. I just want a break from these monotonic statements and assertions of similarity when there are vast differences between our faiths.
Perhaps you could say that Islam and Christianity are two different projections of Judaism. Because they are different, they must then be the result of two divine beings, one of which is God's Spirit, the other of which is an anti-God spirit (a fallen angel). It may be harsh to say that one is Anti-God, but Islam and Christianity are fundamentally opposed to each other. Each claims to come from God, and that the other is an impostor.
I might add that I don't believe Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Mormons, followers of certain denominations and followers of Bible-based cults follow the Spirit of Christ even though they talk and preach about Him. Just because Christ or the God of Israel is in your religion doesn't mean you follow His Spirit. It's the same whether it's with Jews, Muslims or even Christians themselves.
With all due respect . . .
Ok, this is an extreme extreme view -- perhaps I shouldn't have gone this far at all and just stuck with the nominal view that yes, we do worship the same God.
Back in the good old days of Israel, God told the Israelites to worship none other than Him. Then along comes Jesus who says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." I think what this is saying is that it is no longer as simple as following a religion that worships the God of Israel. The one true God is more than that -- He is a God of Truth. If our concept of Him is wrong by miles, we don't belong to Him and are not true believers.
Jews, Christians, Muslims, Roman Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses may say, "we worship the God of Israel" but if their concept of God is wrong, they are not really following God's Spirit but an impostor spirit that has led them astray with a lie.
The way I expressed that view might be a bit weird, but it comes from the view that behind every religion there is a divine spirit, involved -- either God or an angel. This is what Paul calls the "powers and principalities," the spiritual rulers and angelic powers. Whether or not human beings are the originators of religions, I am certain that angels that oppose God exploit their ideas to their advantage to control our minds.
I was actually going through a thread last night on whether Paul was actually a Gnostic, and someone said that this "powers and principalities" view was actually a Gnostic concept that Paul incorporated in his epistles.
Perhaps I might start reading some Gnostic stuff to find out for myself . . . How much do you know about Gnosticism (asking Quahom)?
Quahom1 said:Gnosticism? Quite a bit, actually. In fact there are some threads here that are pretty much dedicated to it. There are also some threads that focus on Paul.
I also did not realize that some consider my version of faith a cult. That was an eye opener.
Read the Qu'ran, you might be surprised by what you find. They say He didn't die on the cross, but they say He is the savior, the messiah. Like Jews, they wait for the messiah to come back. Mohhamed is their greatest prophet because he was the latest and greatest to turn the Arab people towards the One God. The God of Abraham. Again, it was a "logical" step. Prior to Mohhamed, the Arab people had a plethora of gods, and gins, and sprites.
Quahom1 said:Fundamentalists are interesting in their outspokeness against all other faiths. Some of the youngest faiths, cry foul the loudest. And judge? Talk about judging...
Saltmeister said:Ok, this is an extreme extreme view -- perhaps I shouldn't have gone this far at all and just stuck with the nominal view that yes, we do worship the same God.
I said:There's nothing wrong with having an "extreme extreme" view so long as it remains constructive, but it's best not to belittle other members' relationship with God - it really isn't an attitude we tolerate here.
A Muslim missionary called me on my ministry phone in response to my newspaper ad “HELL IS NOT ENDLESS.” (I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature to people who responded to these ads that I have put in two of Toronto’s largest newspapers since 1981.)
The Muslim missionary said “Unless you convert to Islam you WILL suffer forever in hell.”
I said, “That’s what some Christians say if I don’t convert to Christianity.”
He said, “But the difference is that Islam has the truth.”
I said, “That’s what some Christians say about their beliefs.”
He said, “After you die you will learn that the Koran is the word of God and Islam has the truth.”
I said, “I guess I’ll just have to wait until then to find out for sure.”
He said, “But it will be too late for you then.”
I laughed and said, “That’s exactly what some Christians say.”
I don’t think he thought it was funny.
I then expected him to say what a Mormon missionary said to me in Montreal. “At the judgment, as you are being cast into hell, I will point my finger at you and say, ‘I told you so. I gave you a chance but you didn’t take it and now it’s too late’.”
It seems that we are supposed to believe that millions of Muslims, by sheer “accident” of birth, are born into a belief system that teaches their children that even to consider Christianity to be the truth will land them in an eternity of suffering in hell.
I believe that the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell causes more suffering here on earth than any other idea that people believe. That is why it gives me such great pleasure to offer people the urls that contain irrefutable evidence that the Bible does not support such a concept of God.