The Apocalypse Comming Soon?

[Pico]

I noticed in the book of Revelations that it says at one point the sea will turn to blood and 1/3rd of the ships on the sea will be destroyed.

We are approaching the age of more modern space travel, what with President Bush signing someting about a Lunar Base to be made by 2010, I belive; and manned missions to Mars and all...

But how much longer will "ships on the sea" be used? The Bible doesn't say anything about space-ships, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The Bible does say it will come unexpectedly, as a theif in the night...

 

[mee]

I noticed in the book of Revelations that it says at one point the sea will turn to blood and 1/3rd of the ships on the sea will be destroyed.

We are approaching the age of more modern space travel, what with President Bush signing someting about a Lunar Base to be made by 2010, I belive; and manned missions to Mars and all...

But how much longer will "ships on the sea" be used? The Bible doesn't say anything about space-ships, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The Bible does say it will come unexpectedly, as a theif in the night...

maybe you can tell us where in revelation then we can have a look

 

[seattlegal]

maybe you can tell us where in revelation then we can have a look

Revelations 8:8-10

 

[seattlegal]

8 Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Sounds like it could be an underwater volcano. Interestingly, here is an article about a "dead zone" in the ocean in the area of where the earthquake occurred that caused last year's tsunami...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aNqxRdjP1fsk&refer=asia

 

[mee]

And the second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of the sea became blood; and a third of the creatures that are in the sea which have souls died, and a third of the boats were wrecked.


​

And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter ,,,revelation 8;8-10............we must remember that the book of revelation is highly symbolic for the most part ,and the sea can refer to people

"But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire. 21 There is no peace," my God has said, "for the wicked ones ....ISAIAH 57;20-21

Ha for the commotion of many peoples, who are boisterous as with the boisterousness of the seas! And for the noise of national groups, who make a din just like the noise of mighty waters! 13 The national groups themselves will make a din just like the noise of many waters. And He will certainly rebuke it, and it must flee far away and be chased like the chaff of the mountains before a wind and like a thistle whirl before a storm wind. ISAIAH 17;12-13

the sea well pictures restless, unsettled, and rebellious humanity that churns up unrest and revolution.

And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.​

And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names REVELATION 13-1

The time will come when that "sea" will be no more.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.

(Revelation 21:1)

A great mountainlike mass burning with fire is hurled into this "sea." In the Bible, mountains very often symbolize governments. For example, God’s Kingdom is portrayed as a mountain. (Daniel 2:35, 44) Ruinous Babylon became a "burnt-out mountain." (Jeremiah 51:25) But the mountainous mass that John sees is still burning. Its being hurled into the sea well represents how, during and after the first world war, the question of government became a burning issue among mankind,

That "mountain burning with fire" continues to make waves in the sea of mankind. Ongoing struggles over government are reported

The second trumpet blast reveals that those of mankind who got involved in revolutionary conflicts over government rather than submit to God’s Kingdom are bloodguilty. Particularly Christendom’s "third of the sea" has become as blood. All living things therein are dead in God’s eyes. None of the radical organizations floating like boats in that third of the sea can avoid ultimate shipwreck. BUT sheeplike people have now heeded the trumpetlike call to separate from those who are still wallowing in the narrow nationalism and bloodguilt of that sea

 

[mee]

"And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter." (Revelation 8:10, 11) all of this has already happened ,we are now in the LORDS day since 1914 so then who is the great star

The clergy of Christendom

This group is well represented by the symbol of "a great star burning as a lamp

a fall from heaven can refer to losing a high position and falling into ignominy

When the clergy of Christendom apostatized from true Christianity, they fell from the lofty "heavenly" position described by Paul at Ephesians 2:6, 7. Instead of offering fresh waters of truth, they served up "wormwood," bitter lies such as hellfire, purgatory, the Trinity, and predestination; also, they led the nations into war, failing to build them up as moral servants of God. The result? Spiritual poisoning of those who believed the lies. Their case was similar to that of the unfaithful Israelites of Jeremiah’s day, to whom Jehovah said: "Here I am making them eat wormwood, and I will give them poisoned water to drink. For from the prophets of Jerusalem apostasy has gone forth to all the land."—Jeremiah 9:15; 23:15

This fall from the spiritual heavens became apparent in the year 1919 when, rather than Christendom’s clergy, the small remnant of anointed Christians was appointed over the Kingdom interests. (Matthew 24:45-47) And from 1922 that fall was dramatized when this group of Christians renewed their campaign of frankly exposing the failings of the clergy of Christendom. ...And this is the truth ,and i know that some of you are not going to like it but thats the way it is like it or not . revelation is symbolic of many things happening in a spiritual way and it is well along in the book of revelation

 

[Pico]

Yeah, the symbolism in Revelations kinda befuddles me. I guess I take everything al little too litteraly

 

[iBrian]

I know you have set commentaries from Watchtower, but please try to use your own words, mee, rather than cut'n'paste.

 

[Thomas]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
Matthew 24:35-36

Maybe tomorrow ... maybe in 10,000 years ... no-one knows.

Thomas

 

[mee]

I know you have set commentaries from Watchtower, but please try to use your own words, mee, rather than cut'n'paste.

that is my own words , based on my beliefs as a Jehovahs witness . dont know why you mention the watchtower mag

 

[Tao_Equus]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
Matthew 24:35-36

Maybe tomorrow ... maybe in 10,000 years ... no-one knows.

Thomas

My emphasis begs a few questions. Like whats the point of making it to heaven at all then?

TE

 

[mee]

At Armageddon the ruling powers , (HUMAN GOVERMENTS) which are sometimes refered to as heavens will pass away , and the earthly society of people who are in oppostion to the heavenly ruling power (gods heavenly kingdom goverment)will be gone

​

(Isaiah 40:8) The green grass has dried up, the blossom has withered; but as for the word of our God, it will last to time indefinite."



(Isaiah 55:11) so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more REVELATION 21;1

 

[Thomas]

Re: The Apocalypse Coming Soon?

Hi Mee -

The one problem with the Jehovah's Witness agenda lies in the following:

In the gospels, the faithful are warned to beware of false prophets, and these faithful were the founders of the Church, established by Christ (against which even the gates of hell shall not prevail), and which can trace its succession back to the Apostolic era.

So when someone whose doctrine denies the basic tenets of Christianity and is based on a 'new version' of the bible (the New World Translation) which was produced by five scholars who could muster little more than two years' study of non-biblical Greek between them, I find it difficult to conceive how those same people can make any viable claim NOT to be the false prophets against whom the faithful were warned.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Mat 7:15

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." Mat 24:11

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Mat 24:24

Dates for the Apocalypse according to the JH:

1914 (return of Jesus Christ) ... 1925 (return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets) ... 1975 ...

Notably the JWs 'changed' one of their foundational doctrines, that the Armageddon would occur 'within the lifetime' of those alive in 1914 ... 90 years later, there are precious few left, and it was decided that the truth should be changed to fit the circumstance.

If you're going to sling dirt, be prepared to get something thrown back.

Thomas

 

[Pico]

Re: The Apocalypse Coming Soon?

Dates for the Apocalypse according to the JH:

1914 (return of Jesus Christ) ... 1925 (return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets) ... 1975 ...

Notably the JWs 'changed' one of their foundational doctrines, that the Armageddon would occur 'within the lifetime' of those alive in 1914 ... 90 years later, there are precious few left, and it was decided that the truth should be changed to fit the circumstance.

Hmm... The Bible says that when Jesus returns there will be no mistaking it.

I have yet to see any of this happen

 

[wil]

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
Matthew 24:35-36

Maybe tomorrow ... maybe in 10,000 years ... no-one knows.

Thomas

maybe a million....only the Father knows...heaven knows that for the past 2000 years their have been hundreds of thousands that were sure they knew it would be eminant and most were sure it would be in their lifetime...and to date...none of them have been right.

Me thinks the key is to live your life as you should, and as this is not a worry for the day.

 

[Thomas]

I think every tradition says one should live in a state of readiness...


A silly story:
A kid wakes up one morning and finds 50p under his pillow, confusing, as he hasn't lost a tooth, but he says nothing, and keeps the money.

The next night, another 50p ... and the next night another ... the next night another ... kiddie can't believe his luck.

The next night there's no 50p, but a note:

"We're coming tonight. Be ready. The tooth fairies."

Thomas

 

[mee]

Re: The Apocalypse Coming Soon?

Hmm... The Bible says that when Jesus returns there will be no mistaking it.

I have yet to see any of this happen

dont confuse Jesus coming into kingdom power , with the war of the great day of Jehovah, no one knows the day or the hour of Armageddon , that is the time that Jesus will go into action .and people will be on one side or the other , and they will all know and recognize that Jesus is king of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment . but it will be only those who welcome this king that will be saved
After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb. REVELATION 7;9

 

[mee]

Re: The Apocalypse Coming Soon?

Hi Mee -

The one problem with the Jehovah's Witness agenda lies in the following:

In the gospels, the faithful are warned to beware of false prophets, and these faithful were the founders of the Church, established by Christ (against which even the gates of hell shall not prevail), and which can trace its succession back to the Apostolic era.

So when someone whose doctrine denies the basic tenets of Christianity and is based on a 'new version' of the bible (the New World Translation) which was produced by five scholars who could muster little more than two years' study of non-biblical Greek between them, I find it difficult to conceive how those same people can make any viable claim NOT to be the false prophets against whom the faithful were warned.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Mat 7:15

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." Mat 24:11

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Mat 24:24

Dates for the Apocalypse according to the JH:

1914 (return of Jesus Christ) ... 1925 (return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets) ... 1975 ...

Notably the JWs 'changed' one of their foundational doctrines, that the Armageddon would occur 'within the lifetime' of those alive in 1914 ... 90 years later, there are precious few left, and it was decided that the truth should be changed to fit the circumstance.

If you're going to sling dirt, be prepared to get something thrown back.

Thomas

Yes Jesus knew that false teachers and teachings would infiltrate the christian congregation and he was right HELLFIRE, IMMORTALITY OF THE HUMAN SOUL , TRINITY ect ect ect

 

[mee]

maybe a million....only the Father knows...heaven knows that for the past 2000 years their have been hundreds of thousands that were sure they knew it would be eminant and most were sure it would be in their lifetime...and to date...none of them have been right.

Me thinks the key is to live your life as you should, and as this is not a worry for the day.

dont fall asleep you might be caught out and miss the signs ,we are now in the Lords day and he is ready to go into action

 

[taijasi]

Re: The Apocalypse Comming Soon? - it's here!

I would add that one does not need to be a Jehovah's Witness to believe that Armageddon has already begun, and that indeed - 1914 marked the beginning of this global war between the powers of dark & light. This was, of course, the beginning of the First World War (my god, what else do we "want" from Armageddon!?!) ... and esoterically this is but the externalization within the Human arena of the essential struggle at spiritual levels between these two great principles so often discussed in the Christian Bible, and on threads like this.

Another correspondence (although I did not catch the "JH" reference, Thomas) ... is that in the year 1925, this being the Centennial Effort of the spiritual Hierarchy (esoterically "Christ and His Church"), an experiment was made in which the Christ (regarded at the World Teacher by Theosophists & esotericists) would have appeared again openly among Humanity - had the experiment been successful. Of course, the average Christian will regard such a statement with just as much skepticism as the statement that this (experiment) was precisely the same as that which occurred 2100 years ago - involving Jesus of Nazareth. But then, I am not your average Christian.

At any rate, Krishnamurti chose otherwise, and many expectant devotees became disillusioned ... so greatly that the Christ issued a statement (oh, imagine!) addressing the circumstances. This I believe with my whole heart, and I would vouch for the veracity & accuracy of the statement on my deathbed. Moreso, as a Christian I would do my best to consider the full implications of His statement, its relevance to my life and to my purpose (or Dharma, Responsibility) ... and I think it helps immeasurably to put into context any such consideration as this regarding the state of the world today - and just where exactly we find ourselves amidst the Battle of Armageddon. The statement can be found here, and for anyone consulting this page, the actual message starts below the portrait.

As a side note, I think the unbiased reader might find the Christ's words regarding the New Era (Aquarius) ... and some of the negative tendencies of aspiring Aquarians ... most insightful. All too often it is pointed out that the almost-rabid, fanatical tendencies of Pisceans must be stamped out and given over to the graceful, genteel, almost-perferct manners of Aquarians. This is a gross distortion of the facts (as known & taught by Esoteric astrologers), and thus it is helpful to understand the "pitfalls of the aquarian nature," in its unperfected form. [For context, Jesus of Nazareth, prior to the Baptism, as well as John the Baptist himself, epitomize the "ideal Piscean," though one can easily see that John had yet to achieve the self-mastery which Jesus was already able to demonstrate.]

Also, since I know I challenge the status quo - and only by my own accord (at least I will say that much) - I would like to suggest that the ultimate decision regarding false prophets and un-Christlike teachers/teachings is the fruit that comes from hearing & seeing them. But if the standard against which one is comparing a potential revelation (or teaching, teacher, etc.) is itself corrupt, inaccurate, or sorely in need of reform/re-interpretation ... then I ask you, How will you judge the new presentation?

In the last analysis, you must use your own heart, and your own reason, and your own understanding of what surely the mission, method, and Purpose of the Christ (or any other Great One today) must be! And that is how I read these words (above, linked) ... and decide they are genuine. Because as surely as one man's Bible contains errors, mistranslations, intentional omissions and willfully-wrangled presentations, so also does another's.

Where Christ instructed his followers to accept verbatim any version of the texts that would follow his earthly ministries (and surely he knew they would arise) - I will challenge you to show me. Rather, what I recall Him asking, was that we should continue, throughout the years & centuries, to discuss & explore, exchange ideas (as on these forums), and continually open ourselves to new presentations - knowing surely that the Truth would out!

What I've learned over the years is this: Each of us has his or her own Armageddon, even if the one that occurs in the present lifetime is not the Final Battle. There are lesser battles, and every one of them is important. I know what it means to fail, or to lose - which is really only possible if we do not put forth effort. I don't recommend that. But even such a failure is not final, despite the warped & pernicious lies that have been perpetuated through religion. Rather, as Christ taught us, and many, many Teachers before & since, sin & error - no matter how grievous - is but a tool which we use in the ongoing journey of self-perfectionment (sic). Only a repeated choice of evil, life after life, could possibly lead to the loss of one's own `Final Armageddon,' but this is very, very rare - and most unfortunate, indeed.

So again, there are some pretty tough battles that we must face, and at a very advanced point in our spiritual career - there is the Final Battle, and the (desired) outcome is that the Soul (or Solar Angel, the Angel of the Presence) stands triumphant above its vehicle, the conquered personality. This makes of the individual a Master of living in the lower three worlds (body, emotions, mind), and begins the Higher Journey and Great Adventure which leads us into worlds that no man has ever imagined.

But we are not facing that battle now - not most of us, as individuals, anyway ... nor the planet, or Humanity at large. Rather, we do face a difficult time, as the Armageddon of today is a lesser - but important - version of one that is far, far into our future. Yes, we could fail ... and if we lose this battle, it would be unfortunate. But the world is held aloft by ten thousand Atlases, and each one knows his or her connection to those who lead & inspire the many spiritual groups ... and each of these Herculean disciples also reaches out, in turn to a thousand aspirants throughout the world, each doing his or her best to epitomize the Aquarian Disciple, whose motto is:

[font=Verdana,Arial,Geneva,Helvetica][font=verdana,arial,geneva,helvetica]Water of life am I, poured forth for thirsty men.
[/font][/font]​

In my experience, these World Servers come in all shapes, sizes, colors, & genders, from all types of occupations, geographical regions, religious persuasions, and personal philosophies. Those who are the most Christian as I have come to understand that term ... are usually the least vocal about their religious beliefs & practices, yet are always the first to offer help, and are somehow able to remain positive & productive no matter what the circumstances of the world & people around them.

As the present Armageddon continues - and it is definitely not over - I only hope that I have the honor & the privilege, and additional opportunities, to serve alongside these Diamond-Souls whom I consider the true followers of Christ ... knowing them, as I have, in but a few of their many thousands of facets. Let every dark corner of the world be full of their Light and Love, in this season, and in the times to come.

May I recommend the following recent thread to anyone wishing to consider the Apocalypse, or Armageddon, from additional viewpoints?

Thanks,

andrew
​