China Cat Sunflower said:123,
I'll have to think about that. Path's post was very good. For now, since it's late I'll offer this:
I'm not a superstitious person, but I will sometimes, when I'm playing, sacrifice a golf ball to the water god. It's really just a joke, but the idea is that if I give the water god a ball he/she/it will be satiated and leave my other balls alone. I think that the same principle of appeasment applies to more traditional sacrifices. Not all, but some. The tribe offers the life and blood of a member or animal to appease and satiate a god so it will leave the tribe and the tribe's livestock or crops alone.
I don't think that principle applies the Jesus' sacrifice. If we confine ourselves to the context of the gospels and official church doctrine it would seem that Jesus death, while benefiting humans, has a larger effect of settling a cosmic wager between God and Satan. I'm not entirely sure that the salvation resulting from the sacrifice isn't just a side effect of that larger cosmic play. That may be a chicken and egg thing, though.
i feel you are on track with this. i was watching a special on a tribe who still does these sacrifices for a literal circumcision. (cant remember the name of the tribe) they were drinking the blood of the cow & eating it. some of this was forbidden with israel. i agree with you that there was more going on here with Jesus & israel than the way it is done amongst other tribes. israel was not sacrificing to many gods or to the volcanoe god to stop him from being angry. there was something deeper going on.
It's clear, also, that Jesus death and resurrection ar also elements of a personal initiation ritual for him. Upon completion of this initiation he moves into a different office, or puts on a new hat so to speak, in the heavenly hierarchy. In Revelation it says that he is given a new name that only he knows. Names and naming are a big deal in the OT, as I'm sure you're aware. (Don't want to get into that right now!)
i also feel you are seeing the order of events properly & that something did indeed change with the office of Jesus after his death, burial & resurrection. we are on the same page up to here.
in brief, i see these three things that i will share at this point...
God has revealed himself as
the Father in creation
through the Son in redemption
the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
China Cat Sunflower said:I confess that I don't understand why the Logos would be a localized being, or why it's sacrifice would remedy original sin. I have some ideas, but they're very hermetic so I won't get into that either. What I mean is that I don't understand it from a strictly biblical perspective, although I'm working on it.
If I seem to over-intellectualize the Bible it has a lot to do with the mental and emotional processes I went through to break out of a severely rigid fundamentalist mindset that was programmed into me from birth by my parents. I find the Christ's philosophy of love for God and man very easy to understand and accept because it's so simple and intuitive. This is what recommends it to me. Everything thing else I question rigorously!
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with me, I truly appreciate it.
we are on the same page here also. i have seen many people come through this forum with institutionalized backgrounds who had to break free. & i know people who are really searching need to do this. when i lived away from home i was hired to play pipe organ for an episcopal church & i stayed for over three years. i truly enjoyed working with the choir & teachers & i used the talent of the young people to create a music ministry for them. this was when i really learned there is a difference in those who are seeking for freedom from the organizations & a difference in the independant churches. another organization i feel is trying is the dutch reform. there is no reason for things to be that rigid all the time. if it is something that is not real clear & direct like things like love, the commandments, water, communion etc...then it is not doctrine, but rather meat & there to feed us & to grow stronger through study & prayer.
so you are not alone my friend. i commend you on your search for the truth through the scriptures.