Britain and America

[jiii]

My question is especially interested in the thoughts of any British visitors to this thread, but also to anyone that has an idea to add. The question is general, and thus may be difficult to address thoroughly, but I'm interested in hearing what others think.

America, having gained independence from England only a few hundred years ago, would seem to be very similar, and yet at the same time, recognizably different from it's old mother land. My question follows:

In what fundamental ways do Britain and the English differ from America and the Americans (and vice versa)?

By this, I am especially looking for insights into general psychology, the subtleties of culture, and basic attitudes toward life. Although a good deal of pages could be filled with the quite trivial and incidental ways in which Britain differs from America, I am looking for some deeper perspectives that go beyond just apparent differences (ex. the fact that both carry different accents is not the kind of thing I think we need to expound upon...it's pretty obvious).

I got to thinking about this because I live in what is still very commonly referred to by Americans as "New England"...it makes me wonder just how different "New England" is from, well, not "Old England" but the original England. Commentary need not be limited by this, though.

Your thoughts?

 

[InLove]

Hi, and Peace, jiii--I don't think we have ever spoken together before. Nice to meet you.

When you refer to "America", I am assume you mean the United States, since this is where you live. So do I, but in a different part of the country.

This is just my personal observation--my opinion, and certainly others might disagree. But I think that the British, for the most part, seem to be a bit more "laid back" in their attitudes than many people in the States. And they seem to have a shared dry sense of humor that is unique to them. I have also observed that they tend to preserve their architectural history better than we do (although I think we are getting better at it, I hope).

Again, these are just my personal thoughts. I don't know if this is the sort of answer you are looking for, but I hope it helps.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[jiii]

Excuse my vague terminology InLove, I did mean to indicate the "United States" when I used the term "America". I suppose America actually refers to both of the American continents, not just one country upon them. LOL, I guess I wrote it like that out of habit, since people of the United States prefer to call themselves "Americans", rather than, um, "United Statians" (now that's awkward).

And, indeed, your thoughts are certainly appropriate to my question. I'm just interested to hear what people think.

 

[InLove]

"United Statians", huh? (Insert giggles here.) I love it when people make up new words.

Something I meant to add regarding the British interest in preserving architectural history vs. ours is that they have so much more of it to preserve. Could apply, I guess.

Just another thought.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Ain_Soph]

We like ketchup and ranch!

Thats about all I can add.

 

[InLove]

Hi, Ain_Soph. Peace, and nice to meet you .

We like ketchup and ranch!

Thats about all I can add.

I have actually known some people here who like ketchup while at the ranch.

Ain_Soph's comment actually does bring up a valid point, though. The food is quite different here than it is "across the pond". There is different terminology for some of the same foods we have here. And besides, the food is just kind of different. It's better over here, from what I understand (now maybe THAT will get the attention of some of our buds in the UK!)

Com'on, guys--you know I am just kidding. But let's help her out, okay? And I would especially love to hear some comments about the architectural topic. And maybe someone could comment on the difference in the language--not accent, but language. It does differ to an extent--maybe not so much here in CR, but in everyday life.

And then there are the differences in the governmental structure...I don't know so much how to discuss that, but I'll bet someone here does.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Concerning government (what little I know): here in the US, the only difference between the two Houses of Congress (in order to get in, I mean) is you can initially run for one at the age of twenty-five (I believe) and the other you must be thirty. In England, almost anybody can run for a seat in the House of Commons, but must have a legitimate title for the House of Lords. there are no term limits for Prime Minister; there are for President (and, in some cases, thank the PtBs.)

Concerning language (again, what little I know): there are fewer dialects in England than in the US, which (sometimes) effects written language as well as spoken language.

On architecture: the US has slightly different "raw materials" than England, plus England has had several centuries of alteration/fusion. The US has had roughly six centuries of "fusion" from the Spanish conquistadores to today's modern condo complex.

These are things that I can think of, but I could be mistaken (please correct anything I have incorrect, thank you.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[cavalier]

I'm an English guy who has never visited America and hasn't even lived in England for the greater part of the last six years. You decide how much worth my comments have.

There are noticable differences between English and American expatriots out here in Taiwan. Americans seem more able, or more willing, to converse with people of other nationalities. The English will, but are much more comfortable with their own.
Americans seem to have, pretty much, the same personality and characteristics whether they are in a group of Americans, a group of mixed nationalities, or on their own. The English seem more quiet, polite, and respectful when on their own, or in a mixed nationality group, but are much louder and more disrespectful when in a large all-English group.
It would appear the Americans, at least those in Taiwan, have a greater sense of who they are and what they are about.

It seems English people generally consider themselves superior to Americans, more intelligent, refined, discreet, and principled, the general feeling is that our schools, our version of the language, sense of humour, TV, history, army (in terms of its training only(we would obviously be obliterated in a war)), manners, and probably a hundred other things as well, are all superior. I'm sure that there is truth in some of those things, but some of them are just absurd.

We are a once great nation that is now unsure of its place in the world.

 

[InLove]

Hi again, jiii--

I realize that I may have slipped up when I said "Let's help her out". I don't know whether you are male or female, and it doesn't matter. My bad. I apologize.

But this got me to thinking. What about exploring the differences and/or similarities in the women's rights movement of both countries? I entered the following keywords into my browser: Great Britain, United States, women's rights, glass ceiling. The results were, among other items, some term papers that are for sale. Now, I am sure that you do not want to copy from a source, and it does cost some money to get the whole text--I do not know if it is even reliable. However, you might look at the sample posted there and glean an idea or two. Here is the link:

http://www.academictermpapers.com/abstracts/17000/17354.html

Other contrasts/comparisons that might be interesting:

Civil rights in general and how they have evolved in each country--or how about discussing how religion has evolved in both since the American Revolution? (an area where CR would hopefully be quite helpful).

InPeace,
InLove

 

[jiii]

Heh, yes, I am male...no offense taken though.

I don't personally know too much about the civil rights movement in England, though it would be interesting to take a look at.

In terms of the Women's Movement, I would be also curious to know if there is the same income gap between men and women in England that is found in the United States.

Another aspect I've been considering has to do with government. A big part of American lifestyle revolves around our rallying behind our form of government, a "republic". Americans, in many cases, are expected to defend our "democratic" ways to bitter end. We really identify, as a whole, with "democracy". I certainly wonder if the issue is so charged in England.

 

[Faithfulservant]

from what Ive learned... they dont eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They dont have A-1 sauce... the only flavored food they have is curry and they eat the heck out of it. They actually do have a tea time still.. they have weird sayings that dont mean anything like "what are you like?" some actually do speak cockney and I accidentally said something "cockney" when I referred to my fanny pack. They dont call them that there. and you dont want to know what that means to them ROFL. Like In love said they have weird senses of humor... the jokes they laugh at and think are hilarious are ones like the chicken crosses the road. When you laugh at someone you are taking the piss. another weird phrase that makes no sense to me haha. They love getting into insult fests.. and its not a malicious thing.. its all good fun its actually a camraderie thing they only do it with you if they like you. They think we take ourselves too seriously and they joke about it... It actually rains there more than my home state of Washington.

I love the british.. I just dont want to eat their food.

 

[iBrian]

A number of Brits I've speaken to who've been to the USA comment on a few key difference in mindset - namely that in the US people are more open and optimistic, but also more competitive and boastful of their achievements - while in the UK we tend to be cynical and withdrawn, less competitive and more modest about when we achieve things.

It's a case of generalisations, though - and my impression is that it's hard to apply generalisations to people in the US, because there's a such a varied spectrum of people. Some key differences between the South of England compared to the North of England, though - the latter as seen as more rough, but also more friendly, at the same time.

The British class system still has a weird sort of hold on our outlook - apparently, if you're in the US, and you tell people you're aiming to achieve something, you'll receive encouragement and support and people will believe you can do it. In Britain, you're told not to be silly, to "get real", because psychologically a lot of people don't seem to believe you can better yourself much.

2c.

 

[Ain_Soph]

This whole thread is interesting. I would love to go visit the other side of the pond sometime. Anyone gotta couch I can crash on so I can get some firsthand experience.

 

[InLove]

Er, umm..in my own defense, I did say "dry" not "wierd".

InPeace,
InLove

 

[wil]

It's a case of generalisations, though - and my impression is that it's hard to apply generalisations to people in the US, because there's a such a varied spectrum of people. Some key differences between the South of England compared to the North of England, though - the latter as seen as more rough, but also more friendly, at the same time.

The British class system still has a weird sort of hold on our outlook - apparently, if you're in the US, and you tell people you're aiming to achieve something, you'll receive encouragement and support and people will believe you can do it. In Britain, you're told not to be silly, to "get real", because psychologically a lot of people don't seem to believe you can better yourself much.

Great points. And I think both apply heavily to the US, in the impovershed inner cities thinking you are going to be a sports star or drug dealer are accepted ways to get out...but thinking you are going to college to be a doctor or lawyer may be met with less enthusiasm about success. But if you are a member of a more positive community you could be heralded for your entreprenurial spirit (unless of course it is family).

If you were to take generalized attitudes from Maine, Florida, South Carolina, Louisiana, Montana, Wisconsin, Texas, LA, NYC, Seattle...I think you'll find you can't generalize Americans...

 

[Booko]

they have weird sayings that dont mean anything like "what are you like?" some actually do speak cockney and I accidentally said something "cockney" when I referred to my fanny pack. They dont call them that there. and you dont want to know what that means to them ROFL.

And if you have American visitors in the UK, never EVER ask them when they want to be "knocked up."

Here's another difference: The UK has public transport. Other than a very few cities, the US has nothing very functional. The UK has a good rail system. If you want to get most places in the US, if it's not a big city, plan on driving. When I lived in London for a while, I loved the fact that I could get anywhere with public transport and just a bit of walking.

Hm, other differences. Americans are always making fun of the Brits for having such small refrigerators. Well, the Brits don't need big ones -- the grocers is a short walk away. If only ours were maybe we wouldn't be so fat...

Another thing that would be interesting to compare notes on is how immigrant groups are or are not assimilated into the mainstream culture.

I saw a bit on the tube the other day about how Muslims are doing better assimilating into the US culture than the UK and Europe generally.

I was wondering if that's because there's a long history of assimilating immigrants in the US and we're just used to it, or if it was just because the percentage of Muslim immigrants in the UK is higher than in the US, so that makes it easier to stay stuck in your "old country" communities.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I remembered another one.. There is still the mentality among "royalty" that puts you in a social order according to your bloodline.. I guess our wealthy do that here... like who has more money lol

The north are the labor force and usually poor and resent the southern ppl..the accents are so very different also. ive heard about 4 different accents.

Hm, other differences. Americans are always making fun of the Brits for having such small refrigerators. Well, the Brits don't need big ones -- the grocers is a short walk away. If only ours were maybe we wouldn't be so fat...

rofl thats another one.. they think we are all fat. hehe

 

[jiii]

Originally posted by Booko

I saw a bit on the tube the other day about how Muslims are doing better assimilating into the US culture than the UK and Europe generally.

I was wondering if that's because there's a long history of assimilating immigrants in the US and we're just used to it, or if it was just because the percentage of Muslim immigrants in the UK is higher than in the US, so that makes it easier to stay stuck in your "old country" communities.

Interesting observation, Booko. I can't say I've heard of that before. I would not really be surprised if America can assimilate various immigrants somewhat easier than many other countries. Integration has proven never to be perfectly smooth, and America has had its blunders...this cannot be denied. But for the last 300 years, America has had a good deal of steady practice at being something of an international melting pot, rather than a country with defining demographics and customs. And because America has really only been a nation for 230 years, this is a characteristic that is integral to American identity, I think, in one way or another.

 

[InLove]

Here's another difference: The UK has public transport. Other than a very few cities, the US has nothing very functional. The UK has a good rail system. If you want to get most places in the US, if it's not a big city, plan on driving. When I lived in London for a while, I loved the fact that I could get anywhere with public transport and just a bit of walking.

Hi Booko, nice to meet you.

I live in a city which used to be considered a suburb of a big metroplex. It has, over the past couple of decades, simply melded into the whole huge thing. All around me, in other cities that have pretty much evolved in the same way, there is public transport. But our city won't approve it.

I have always been in support of public transport here, but recently I became downright upset because I experienced first-hand a real need for it. Because of an illness, I found I could not drive a car, and my doctor was a long way from my house. I had to go there every day for about eight weeks, and it was no easy task for me to arrange to get there. Public transportation helped me a great deal, but I still had to find a way to get to the nearest station in the next town. People had to take off work to get me where I was going.

There are some pretty good rail and bus systems in the U.S., but they are few and far between. I notice that in cities like New York, senior citizens (no, I don't quite qualify yet, but I l will someday, and I want to be able to get around) are more likely to be out and about on their own, because they do not have to rely on a car to get them where they are going. I would imagine that it is the same way in places like London.

Another benefit of a good transportation system, in my opinion, is that it would help people who can't afford to get to a well-paying job because cars are so expensive, and then there is the gas to make the expensive car go....

InPeace,
InLove

P.S. LMAO (and as an American, perhaps I need to) over the "knocked up" comment!

 

[Quahom1]

My question is especially interested in the thoughts of any British visitors to this thread, but also to anyone that has an idea to add. The question is general, and thus may be difficult to address thoroughly, but I'm interested in hearing what others think.

America, having gained independence from England only a few hundred years ago, would seem to be very similar, and yet at the same time, recognizably different from it's old mother land. My question follows:

In what fundamental ways do Britain and the English differ from America and the Americans (and vice versa)?

By this, I am especially looking for insights into general psychology, the subtleties of culture, and basic attitudes toward life. Although a good deal of pages could be filled with the quite trivial and incidental ways in which Britain differs from America, I am looking for some deeper perspectives that go beyond just apparent differences (ex. the fact that both carry different accents is not the kind of thing I think we need to expound upon...it's pretty obvious).

I got to thinking about this because I live in what is still very commonly referred to by Americans as "New England"...it makes me wonder just how different "New England" is from, well, not "Old England" but the original England. Commentary need not be limited by this, though.

Your thoughts?

Here is a common denominator, called by a different name. The British have a reputation for keeping a "Stiff upper lip". Keeping tight and stoic in a tough situation. Apparently that has rubbed off on the American pychy as well, though it is referred to as hanging tough, or can-do attitude. But I submit, that not only the United States is directly affected by Britian, but Canada and Australia as well (not to leave out New Zealand)

The US has Constitutional Law, which is similar to British Common Law. However there are differences (mostly as of late in the American life to date), and relatively minor.

The United States American, does seem to have a decidedly more independant/stubborn streak that many take for arrogance. However, I believe that comes from ancestors driving the point home that we are born with nothing, therefore we must go out and earn our way, because no one is going to help unless they see a determined effort, and that may only be a lucky break. I'm not so certain that that is a good thing all the time...Katrina comes immediately to mind. Help was offered by people all over the world, including some of the most unlikely of countries, and we thanked them, but declined for the most part.

There is also a general mindset against (in the United States) "owing" someone (I'm not talking about money). No favors, no assistance, we don't like it. On the other hand, we have a tendency as a nation to forgive, or forget a debt owed by others to us. Britian is not so quick to let go of markers.

It most likely is due to the country being built by immigrants who came to start fresh and sever all but familial ties with their countries of origin. Think about it. Americans are quite quick to identify themselves as "Irish American", or Italian American, and so on. Familial ties are held close. But no one says, "I'm a decendant of the British Empire, or the Soviet Union, or the Franco Monarchy".

If one thinks about it, the United States comprises of 50 united nation states, under one common federal law and government, one common language, but containing 50 seperate State laws and governments, with people from all walks and nations contained therein, that differ from state to state. But we aren't really comfortable with saying, "I'm a Michigander, or a New Jersian, or New Yorker (well ok, maybe New York has no problems with it)", most of the time its "I'm from Michigan, or from Texas, or Oaklahoma, or Washington", but I'm an American, is the standard identifier. There are exceptions to the rule, particularly with people who may be indigenous to the area they hail from (such as the true 10,000 remaining Hawaiians, or the Chamorans of Guam, or the Puerto Ricans, or Aleuts of Alaska).

I don't think the citizens of Great Britian, for example are so cohesive in their declaration of who they are. British citizen, yes. But I'm Welsh, or I''m Scottish, or I'm English, seems to be the common identifiers.

I know the Canadians are not so tight about National identifiers. I'm not so certain about Australia, but it seams New Zealanders hold the same national identity, that Americans do.

I also note that United States citizens call themselves by the entirety of the continent on which they live (or are in proximity to). And it seems to be something that everyone world wide accepts and understands, even by those who live in other parts of the American continent...which I find very interesting. Last time I noted that in history was Rome...

Finally, it has been said that America and England have everything in common, but a language...that may be quite true, down on the streets, and in the comparative mindsets. Of course to be "knocked up" in the United States often is considered "A wake up call..."

my thoughts

v/r

Q